If mine and your views on things are polar opposite that's absolutely fine by me.
I would love to know what was in that PM you sent me a couple of weeks ago that you deleted before I had the chance to read it.

so, you admit you disagree with people purely on the basis of the poster as opposed to the content, enough said.

If that how you want to interpret that then that's ok with me however untrue it is.
I have on a number of occasions agreed with Sal on numerous issues.

I'm sure occasionally even yourself may come up with a fair point, but even a blind squirrel will find a nut once in a while.

Dont expect a reply
I've noticed any kind of criticism that contains logic,fact or any kind of reasoning behind it is ignored so the argument goes away or dismissed as fake news.

Watched the American program with John Oliver last night as I usually do (not a great episode btw) but it is alarming the parallels between the Republicans, Trump, Fox news etc and our conservative party and a pretty decent percentage of their following. Blind devotion comes to mind.
Tbf the Tories are a "Light" version containing maybe say 30/40% of their ideology etc. But the way they are going about things in general, and not just the coronavirus issues is straight of their playbook.

So you know for a FACT that as you put it "Most of the Morons who dont follow the rules " are young and mostly vote Labour?
Can you provide a link to your source please? I'm interested to know how you come to this conclusion

Yet

It's the "Tory voters like to have some input into their life - they don't need the control of the state like you lefties"

Which could be interpreted quite reasonably IMO becuase o cant think what else it could mean as, were Tories we know best, follow our rules that we dont need need to follow.

As Bojo says this just needs people to use "Good, solid, British common sense!".
That'll get the flag wavers going.

Sorry for not being more specific, I'll try harder next time.
However, the point still stands.

There is now an instant need for several million face coverings and remembering what happened with Toilet rolls (or is that Toilet tissue) and flour, rice, pasta etc, is there sufficient stock of these items in the UK ?

Btw, you best have a word with the BBC, they have a how to make your own FACE MASK article on the daily coronavirus thread

Absolute nonsense.
Have you been in a supermarket lately ?

The people going in in pairs and not observing social distancing are middle aged / older people who have "always gone together" and 9/10 have a copy of the Mail and Express in their trolley (or trollies, as they now trundle round the shop in a mini convoy.
They are the same generation who say, we got through this, that or, the other and carry on, even though they are the most vulnerable. My own parents are guilty of doing just this but, trying to get them to change their habits is impossible and they're too stubborn to listen.
Yes, at the other end of the scale are the "yoof", some who obey the rules to the letter and others who please themselves, without thought or consequence for how their actions may affect others.

If you can tell me which one of these groups are likely to vote Labour, I'll get a message to Kier Starmer because he's going to need some extra votes

Have to agree with you on this point, I don't think a specific demographic voter is flouting the rules, heck, some of the Governments own ministers can't stay within the rules. Changing the message was a mistake, the balancebetween needing people back to work (in reality, getting the furlough bill down) is a very fine one. In hindsight (am I allowed that, with me being a Conservative?) furlough should only have been made available to business with a certain range of turnover, staff numbers, cash and assets etc. But there are a lot of things we would all change with hindsight.

See we can agree

Personally, if a business can run "safely"(as much as is reasonably possible and it's employees are not vulnerable, they should be doing so.
Clearly, allowing those who are carers or "vulnerable" need to be shielding anyway but, the show must go on.

Having said that, with the huge downturn in the ecconomy, many businesses are more than happy to be able to furlough their staff, as there is no work for them to be doing.
I dont think the government had too much choice in doing something quite drastic though, as we all need to eat and without some "reasonable" income, people would have simply ignored the lockdown and continued with their normal routine.

I do think that there needs to be some easing of restrictions between families seeing one another, if not, people will simply ignore the advice and see each other anyway.
You do wonder what happens when it starts raining. We have been lucky with the weather over the last 6-8 weeks and queuing is no great hardship when the sun is shining but, everyone will be a whole load more impatient when they are getting soaked.

Wonder if the Spitter was Labour or Tory? Young or Old?
Was the lady who has died that was spat at Labour or Tory? A Leftie who just wants a Nanny State
Did she vote Leave or Remain?

Victoria Station worker dies with coronavirus after being spat at
A ticket office worker at London's Victoria Station has died with coronavirus after being spat at while on duty.
Belly Mujinga, 47, was on the station concourse in March when a member of the public claiming to have Covid-19 spat and coughed at her and a colleague, the Transport Salaried Staffs Association (TSSA) said. Within days of the assault, both women fell ill with the virus.

Whilst at the same time :-
A key worker has said that social distancing was “impossible to maintain” on his tube journey to work on Tuesday morning.
Terry McCarthy, 37, a supermarket store manager, took a photo at Canada Water at 7am and shared it to Twitter with the caption: "And they try to tell us the tube is at 5 per cent capacity! This is dangerous and putting lives at risk!”
He said that his place of work was too far away to walk or cycle to.
Both the platform and the train were busier than what it has been the last few weeks.
There were too many people in the carriage and social distancing was impossible to maintain

And at the same time :-
BREAKING:
The number of deaths in the UK involving coronavirus has passed 40,000, analysis of officials statistics shows.
And
Covid-19 deaths 24% higher in England as care home fatalities soar
Covid-19 deaths in England were 24 per cent higher than previously reported, according to new data from the Office for National Statistics (ONS).

I was accused earlier of dismissing people opinions based on who they are, or who their politics aligned with.
Nothing could be further from the truth

I believe the Furlough scheme if anything was too generous and the government should have looked at maybe limiting that (From someone who has 3 people furloughed in the household - albeit 1 has a main job that can carry on as normal). And also the business relief program was over generous in some instances.
For example and I mentioned Bowling in another post, I run/am director of a Cricket/bowling/social club and we qualified for the small grant of 10k - We will need that and that's fantastic and I would say pitched at the right level. I know of 2 Bowling greens that are just that, a Green, with no clubhouse/staff etc. with very little income but then again very little Overheads, and somehow they qualify for the same 10k. That will last them 10years!!!
What I do believe however is that a lot of the trumpeting about the "Success" the government had achieved was based on those kinds of "Generous" Financial policies and it was a smokescreen for a lot of their mistakes made 6/8 weeks earlier in not taking this threat seriously enough and all that came with it over the next 6/8 weeks.

The announcement Sunday was riddled with issues, my own friend said he thought it was "easy to understand" and then within the next 5mins both if us asked numerous questions that we had no idea on - some of that was resolved yesterday, a lot hasn't.

Why was there such a rush to get this out Sunday night, with all the holes in it, why wasn't there earlier and better communication with Devolved governments? etc.

I understand that people voted for Boris for a variety of reasons
Get Brexit done.
Corbyn is a Communist
etc.

There are as many people on that side of the fence blindly defending the government due to their previous alignment on the above and other issues to "Prove" they were right to vote Boris.

That's fine
But don't be surprised, just as if the shoe was on the other foot, of others quite rightly IMO questions things when they believe things have been done incorrectly/badly.

Is there an issue with couples living together going shopping together in the current climate





If 9/10 buy any newspaper these days I’ll show my arris

Try as hard as you like,but not sure your point is valid.
The advice isn't to go out and stock up on the same type of equipment used as PPE,so there shouldn't be any serious consequences for the people that need surgical or respirator masks.

BTW Followed the BBC instructions and made a few spare,happy to send you one free of charge if you're struggling to get hold of one.

What's this? You've suddenly realised that there may be massive demand for face masks? Why, it's almost as though you've finally accepted the current global crisis might make it tough to get hold of items of PPE.



As it happens, you can get them fairly easily now - but pretty much just the cheap paper ones that are neither use nor ornament unless you are infected, and then only to benefit people around you, not you. Medical-grade PPE quite rightly is being prioritised.

I've explained before - as has TURFEDOUT - that the vast majority of face masks are largely useless if the virus is in the air (unless FFP3 and professionally fitted - i.e. sealed to the face). Those folds at the side of the mask? That's where the air you breath comes in, not through the mask. However, a face covering may help reduce the spread from someone who is infected by soaking up droplets from their exhaled breath, coughs, etc.

BTW, not that it really matters whether you call it a mask or a covering - taken from the BBC article:



As it happens I bought a reusable FFP2-certified 'snood'-type face cover back in March, as it seemed clear to me we would require face coverings at some point and I'm able to think for myself, have a degree of common sense and don't rely on others to spell things out for me. Do you own a scarf? Or have an old t-shirt and aren't completely useless? Can you fashion something to cover your nose & mouth? Or will you just complain?

Is this yet another case of the left needing their backsides wiping?

I'm just going to put both hands over my face and look through my fingers.

Please wash your hands first!!!

The couples shopping together aren't a risk to each other.
However, they are doubling the chances of taking the virus back into their household and unnecessarily increasing the numbers within the retail space ?

The 9/10 was obviously tongue in cheek but, the older couples, who cannot be separated do ten to be the ones still buying newspapers, it's certainly not twentysomethings.
With my parents generation, I dont know if they are to old to "be told what to do" but, despite being in the most vulnerable age category, they're as stubborn as can be.

On Channel 4 news last night they had the boss of the biggest care home group in the UK with a huge number of deaths - he was asked by the Murthy how many of their staff and customers had been tested he said 3,000 and they were working to get more but operationally this is difficult!! and then he was asked about PPE, his response was "we have and excellent procurement team, we saw this coming and we have not had any issues in respect of PPE" at which point G-Murthy closed down the interview, obviously didn't give him the ammunition he needed. Perhaps the Labour MP sacked for telling lies about PPE volunteered for this group?

It does beg the question why more testing is not being done - My company has Critical supplier status - we had two guys showed symptoms on Wednesday last week, we booked a test for both Thursday, they were tested Friday - negative results Monday. I cannot understand why all care home staff/customers have not been tested - it should be mandatory.

You are confusing now with the first few weeks when despite what Johnson might say there was clearly a problem particularly when they blatantly ignored care homes because they did not believe the virus would be a problem.
I would suggest Johnson tries to avoid any further confrontation with the Labour leader who is clearly nailing his bafoonery with facts every time they face each other.

Johnson, who is great at one liners and put downs, has never been strong on detail of anything - the cockney term is "blagger".
If Starmer or anyone else actually gets enough chances to pin him down, he will find more holes than the proverbial sieve.

You have to say that Johnson has done well to get the top job, with his likeable oaf act but, time will definitely catch him and when there is ever any proper scrutiny, he will be found wanting.
Mind you, he will very quickly send one of his puppets in to take the bullets, it's what he does.

The current PMQs format is showing him to be the make it up on the spot blagger that he really is. Without his braying mob, to jeer over the bluff and bluster, he's got absolutely nowhere to hide. Gone is the cocksure, swashbuckling, 'bring it on' attitude. He's been reduced to a sitting duck. The following two pictures sum him up, for me.

Its the one bonus of being the top man - someone takes the bullet for you. Johnson has served his purpose for the Tories, he killed the hard left Labour Corbynites in one night - never to be seen again. I would not be surprised if he steps down through ill health and allows Sunak to take over. He will certainly give Starmer a run intellectually/gravitas wise a run for his money.

One of the problems the Tories made and it was probably a left over from the GE - they put too many eggs in the NHS basket at the cost of everything. It worked the NHS coped really well sadly the care sector suffered.

Do you think that Sunak will still be a front bench politician when the Government have to balance the books.
All that he's done so far is to open the country's wallet and boy, has he opened it.

Spending at a rate never witnessed in peace time.

If he gets through this one, with borrowing under control, he will probably be made king, never mind Prime Minister.
It's far more likely than Boris will use him as a fall guy and tell the country how he "trusted him to get us through this", as he eases him aside for yet another one of his cronies.

I was always told that it's easy to spend money and that anyone could do it, much more difficult to achieve the same results on a budget and he's certainly not sticking to any budget but, there will be a day of reckoning at some point and then we will see, not only how good the Chancellor is but, also how good Boris is under severe fiscal pressure and most importantly, there wont be the get out clause of the last 10+ years, where every difficult decision was blamed on Labour - I'm looking forward to it.

The coronavirus has given them an excuse for many many years financially - gullible lot us Brits, especially when there is no alternative in sight

Gullibility only lasts as long as it does not effect a person’s finances, when they realise that many will be paying more and working until they are 70 the lies of Johnson will quickly start to wear thin and scrutiny will increase. We all know he is not a big fan of being scrutinised or questioned without a large fridge about.