"... the country of long shadows on cricket grounds, warm beer, invincible green suburbs, dog lovers and pools fillers and, as George Orwell said, 'Old maids bicycling to holy communion through the morning mist'."

A charming vision, experienced by only a tiny minority of Britons and sitting totally outside the experience of the majority.

I don't even like warm beer. Or cricket. And old dears on bicycles are invariably oblivious to their surroundings, presenting a huge hazard to themselves and other road users. I do love dogs, though.

Not surprised. You don't seem to like anything English.

Beer (i.e. like ale but flavoured with hops) was introduced to England by the Flemish and is hence a very good example of the parts of our culture that have been assimilated from elsewhere.
By the way, I don't like warm beer either, I like my pint of bitter at a cool (i.e.normal cellar) temperature.

Cricket is, on the other hand, very much an English product, even though the name is from the Dutch.

Every shadow, 100% is a long shadow, this is due to our latitude. 100% of Britons experience them.

Cricket grounds? Surely, wherever you live, there's a nearby cricket field of one sort or another, and I don't believe that there's anyone in the country who could honestly claim never to have experienced the sight of cricket in the evening.

"Warm beer" is meant to indicate that the serving temperature of what you might call a traditional British ale is considerably less chilled than the ubiquitous "lagers" forriners are used to, so seems warm to them. I think such warm beer is universally available and I reckon a pretty high proportion of Britons have experienced it.

Green suburbs are where the majority of Britons live, and although some may be greener than others, it seems odd to suggest that green suburbs are out of the experience of anyone.

Dog lovers? No shortage of dogs on anywhere, from the toughest sink estates all the way to Buck Palace. You can't mean that.

Pools fillers? Well, the quote gives away its age there, but when the pools were in their heyday, I'd say that it was the working classes who played them more than any other, although it was widely popular and by no means restricted to them.

People cycling? Church buildings? Morning mist?

Thinking you're a bellend for suggesting that we should deport everyone who refuses to recite your Pledge of Britishness and 'not liking anything English' are whole worlds apart.

Stop the innuendo and say what you mean

As I'm sure you already know, most of that quote is from John Major predicting that, despite being in the EU, Britain would still be describable in those (his) terms in another fifty years.
Whilst the "Britain" that he described was really more English than British, we do recognise the elements of his description, even though the total vision is really a myth.

If he'd mentioned the "Indian" takeaway that many of us crave more than a decent cup of tea upon returning from foreign parts, the rise and rise of the over-refrigerated pint of "lager" or the ubiquitous availability of olive oil or muesli he might have struck a more resonant chord.

To avoid setting up another thread, what do we all think of today's post-Blair Labour Party? The last few days have been a revelation. First we had Ed Balls with his amazingly pathetic ideas to solve the nation's crisis, namely cut winter fuel payments to a few well-off pensioners. Wow, that'll make all the difference. Then there was his vague "policy for growth" and "jobs for our young people". It's laughable. Although is it? If they take payments away from better off pensioners that will pave the way for the better off to argue against contributing as much in future, to everyone else's detriment. If such a policy were to be introducued the sensible (not a Labour strong point) way would be to continue to make payments but subject them to tax (to the extent they are not already) and the better off will then pay back a higher percentage without feeling unfairly treated. There would be savings in administrative costs too (burden shifted to the better off pensions via self-assessment).

Now we have the second Ed (the unelectable leader himself) saying he'll [ucap[/u benefits, which as Paxo said presumably means that when the cap is reached no one gets any more money?

I have to ask myself whether, after the Militant Tendency infilitrated Labour in the '70s the Tory elite have now infiltrated Labour? We saw it with tuition fees - Labour (the self-professed "people's party" *) could get away with introducing them which paved the way for the Tories to hike them up. Now Labour is talking about divisively getting rid of universal benefits, of capping welfare, not ring-fencing NHS expenditure (after started privatising things when in office), etc. Things the Tories haven't had the nerve to do but would love to. In short, Labour are paving the way for the complete dismantling of everything their party ever did or created that was good.

Even if you were not to take my cynical view, surely Labour's leadership is showing the paucity of its thought and ambition? Firstly, they rail against the Tories policies in some of these areas then because opinion polls show people overwhelming in favour (at least conceptually - until the penny drops at their own feet) Tory policy they change to be "tougher" than the Tories. They are not leaders, they are followers completely out of touch with "the people" (in the majority sense). Not only that, they are still followers of an outdated Tory ideology. Why can't they frame a vision of the UK that is different, uplifting, credible and positive? Why are they in politics at all? Certainly not to "make a difference" to anyone other than themselves.

They are wet, out of touch and third rate. The Tories are the same, but second rate in that they at least lead the way in the inept ideology that manifest itself as modern British politics.


(*) But which "people"? This is the question that I've been asking for years - who does Labour represent?

This has been alluded to in previous threads. You are basically voting for government A or government B. They are all members of the same club, they are all only in it to get an easy wage acting like school children in the playground, yet we, the public, believe that one is more worthy of our vote than the other because this is how we are supposed to think. If you don't like government A or B, you can vote for filler party 1, 2, 3, etc to make you think like you have a voice and are actually making a difference.

The model of the politics of the government is produced to create as many white collar, middle man jobs as possible forming an illusion that the phrase 'middle Britain' belongs to everyone. Everyone can afford a house in the suburbs with nice neighbours that they don't talk to, has two cars that they use to take their kids to school down the road and has all the latest technology so they don't have to leave their sofas to socialise. 'Middle Britain' bliss.

The only things we [ican[/i be bothered to raise our voices about are sensational news stories inflated out of proportion, with sides usually formed by fantastical religion based ideas formed centuries ago.

The silence is deafening re this Milliband 'benefits cap' idea.

Are you still in mourning numpty?

Try looking on a more relevant thread, soft cock. You could equally complain that there's no mention of Game of Thrones on the food & drink thread

Wow two instances of abuse. I wonder if Mintball will warn posters in question as I was a few weeks ago.

If you consider them to be abuse, you obviously need to get out more

Point me in the direction of the debate on Labour's proposed benefits cap please.

You were warned for persistent trolling and a refusal to add anything to debate.

And if you bother to look at various threads, you will see quite clear condemnation of the current Labour positions from a number of people on this forum, suggesting that you are simply trolling again.

But since you're struggling, [url=http://viewtopic.php?p=17418863&tsmp=1370689086#p17418863you'll find the beginning of at least one strand of criticism here[/url.

This isn't a daily newspaper - start one if you want some debate, just do us all a favour and don't get yourself in a foot-stomping strop when some others don't follow your line of argument though - difference of opinion is what debate is all about and opinion that is different to yours is there for balance and not instant dismissal as "opposition" or "left" or "right" despite how you have been conditioned to believe.

Persistent trolling. No just offering my opinion. If you don't agree fine but this is different from trolling.

I have looked at the threads and cannot see any condemnation of the proposed benefits cap.

Perhaps you could point me in the right direction?

Perhaps you could explain how someone who asks about me being in mourning, calling me a numpty and a cock adds anything to debate whilst you are at it?

People are free to disagree but there isn't a level playing field on this forum.

I can make a post and be subjected to instant abuse by the same three or four posters every single time. Very tiresome and impossible to have any kind of debate in that atmosphere.

There are plenty of people here who I do not personally age with. That's the nature of discussion. Perhaps you can learn something from them.



I just have. If you cannot understand discussion starting with: 'after Miliband's speech the other day' and need more context than that, then you may find other sites less taxing.

Y'see, I don't think you are dumb. I think you know perfectly well where the comments are, including (IIRC) El Barbudo attacking the attacks by Labour on universality of social security.

So this is exactly what I mean by trolling - in your case, attempting to pointlessly distract discussion.

Perhaps I give you too much credence.

The last time I responded to you, you stomped off apparently in a huff, stating that you had made your point, when you had made no point at all beyond trying to make out the the AFL were actually fascists because a number of them had been arrested.
If the debate is too robust for your superficial level of analysis, that is your problem, deal with it.

I never stomped off anywhere.

It was in fact you who said "ok, bye", which suggested that the 'debate' had reached its natural conclusion.

I must admit though, I see no point in engaging with most of what you say.

"did your mummy let you use the computer" - not robust, just playground stuff.

That is enough.

Everyone: do not let yourselves get distracted by the trolling.

Ajw71 – you have, as you know, been warned before. If you didn't understand that warning, you cannot now claim not to understand entirely what I meant.

Your future here is entirely up to you.

You can add to discussion properly or not. the choice is yours and, with it, the consequences.

Make it level then, and if a few (3 or 4) respond in a way that does not address any issue other than at you personally, then ignore them - we hear very little of your actual political views here other than just some repetition of propaganda, if you truly believe this stuff then give your honest opinion - go on, start a new thread with your own opinion as the header and conduct a proper debate, see if you can do it.