any idea where to buy the above 2 books at a reasonable price.. roughly 40 bucks each on ebay

Well. Yes.

What about biological warfare and other acts of terrorism? Ethnic cleansing? Mass imprisonment? Collective punishments?

Since you're recommending books, you could try [url=http://www.amazon.co.uk/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851685553/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1326442308&sr=1-2this[/url or [url=http://www.amazon.co.uk/Invention-Jewish-People-Shlomo-Sand/dp/1844676234/ref=pd_sim_b_6this[/url or [url=http://www.amazon.co.uk/Punishment-Gaza-Gideon-Levy/dp/1844676013/ref=pd_sim_b_4this[/url or [url=http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beyond-Chutzpah-Misuse-Anti-semitism-History/dp/1844671496/ref=pd_sim_b_3this[/url.

You may wish to note the ethnicity/nationality of the authors of the titles linked to.

Before this becomes the very heated pro/anti Palestinioan/Israeli debate, please note that the article states that spouses will not be allowed citizenship if the marry an Israeli citizen. We cannot throw stones: a [isimilar[/i law exists here for spouses of the Indian sub-continent.

An early contender for BBPOTY. (Biggest Bollox Post of the Year)

I wouldn't say it's similar but it does have a hint of the same flavour.

For Sudetenland read West Bank, where Israeli settlements (illegal in International law) are springing up like mushrooms.
In Area C of the West Bank, Israelis now outnumber Palestinians by more than two-to-one.
For "settlements" read "invasion", these are not people in covered wagons discovering a "new" land, they are protected by Israeli troops who have no problem in shooting any Palrestinian who demonstrates.
These "settlements" are not just a slight leakage over the border, they are right across the West Bank.
Yet, despite this spread, Israel still says that is willing to negotiate about withdrawing back to the 1967 boundaires ... yeah, right, anyone who actually believes that must be utterly deluded.

Meanwhile, over in Gaza, Gazans are still subjected to Israel's rules about what they can and can't import and export, right down to essentials such as oil for cooking oil and cement to rebuild homes. These could be used for military purposes, according to the Israeli government.

The only conclusion one can draw is that Israel is determined, in the long run, to eliminate Palestine.
And still our governments look away, to their eternal shame.

Utter rubbish.
There are tests to be passed to determine whether the marriage is a genuine one but there is no ban on citizenship for spouses.

Well quite.

Previous bright ideas included little areas where the Palestinians could have limited autonomy over some things, but absolutely no state. Reminiscent of the bantustans of apartheid South Africa.

Nicely put. Western governments are very selective about which countries/people they see fit to 'help'. How, for example, is the situation in Syria different to the one in Libya a few months back? Why is it ok for one dictator to murder his own people, but not another?

Given the Syrian links to both Hezbollah and Hamas, you would have thought they would have been next on the list for assisted revolution wouldn't you - axis of evil and all that.

Any foreign intervention in Syria however is going to be painted by the government there as "Zionist" and at the direct behest of Israel, which given the history, proximity and disputed borders of the two countries could stir up a whole heap of trouble. The rest of the Arab world wasn't really too fussed - at least not on a political level - by events in Libya. Poking Syria with a stick might produce an entirely different reaction.

[url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/9012322/David-Cameron-visits-Saudi-Arabia-for-talks-with-Crown-Prince-Nayif.htmlOr to see as friends.[/url

Much like the US, the UK is massively in hock to the Saudis in terms of supporting our economy. Not keeping them sweet - even if that means looking the other way when it comes to their human rights record - carries a price no government of any political hue would be prepared to pay.

Yet it doesn't stop any government condemning other, selective nations – as Rock God said – and twaddling on about ethics etc.

What do you want, ethical and consistent foreign policy?

The Saudis, Indonesians and even the Afghans all passed Robin Cook's old ethical foreign policy tests, enabling UK firms to export arms to them despite their records of repressing and attacking their own people.

It's one thing having ethics, it's another entirely applying them when there's money to be made unfortunately.

It would be nice. For a change.



Oh I'm entirely aware of just how far away an ethical foreign policy is. But you know – I dream of world peace too.

Don't know why everyone gets so worked up. Leave them to sort their own affairs out and let's look after our own country.

If Israel is as bad as people say they will inevitably have sown the seeds for their own destruction by angered parties. So, let them get on with it - either they will all learn to live in harmony or the position will resolve itself the hard way over time. History suggests the latter.

Actually, if you want to be accurate, the victims of the Holocaust were not just from one race/religion. Approximately a quarter of those who went to the camps and the gas chambers went for other reasons.

Unfortunately, all too often, they get forgotten.

We all know that's not going to happen though. Israel will be allowed to flout international law indefinitely, and when (if) they're attacked, the US and UK will come piling in like Israel are the wronged party.

thought the argument would go as it has OK to explain my point www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... ofcitizen/ I have had several issues in explaining this to neighbours from the area I mentioned who point to others who have had not had the same. In other words, lets's not assume the world sees us as so blameless we can criticise from a safe position.

thought the argument would go as it has OK to explain my point www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... ofcitizen/ I have had several issues in explaining this to neighbours from the area I mentioned who point to others who have had not had the same. In other words, lets's not assume the world sees us as so blameless we can criticise from a safe position.

Quote ="Hillbilly_Red"thought the argument would go as it has OK to explain my point www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... ofcitizen/ I have had several issues in explaining this to neighbours from the area I mentioned who point to others who have had not had the same. In other words, lets's not assume the world sees us as so blameless we can criticise from a safe position.'" No reference on that page to India (which is what your original post suggested).

Quote ="Hillbilly_Red"thought the argument would go as it has OK to explain my point www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... ofcitizen/ I have had several issues in explaining this to neighbours from the area I mentioned who point to others who have had not had the same. In other words, lets's not assume the world sees us as so blameless we can criticise from a safe position.'" No reference on that page to India (which is what your original post suggested).

Including something like 60 (I'm ready to be corrected) UN resolutions that they've ignored

I think that, what with the US supplying Israel with cash and weapons, they are not being left to their own devices.
But thanks for that deeply moral response

I was told (don't know how true this is) if we and the Americans just stopped supporting and supplying Israel overnight, then some of the Arab states would almost certainly declare war on them not long after.

Would you know what "deeply moral" was if you fell into it?