So if Palestinians aren't allowed to 'poke the bear' what do you suggest they do about Israel stealing their land and restricting entry/exit of the Gaza strip, bearing in mind that even though the international community condemns it, nobody seems to want to do anything about it?

Where did I say they weren't 'allowed'? They can do what they like, but let's look at the status quo: Hamas begin one of their periods of violence and launch hundreds of rockets into Israel. Israel, as they always do and always promise they will, hit back ten times harder with air strikes and often ground activity.

The fact is, far more Palestinians will die than Israelis when theis cycle comes around yet again - what's the count now - around 90 to 0 Israelis? Now, even though I assume you didn't ignore it the first time round I'll say it again - that doesn't make it right and my sympathies lie with the Palestinians - but this cycle of violence is damaging, deadly and completely and utterly pointless. Hamas seem to rely on dead Palestinians to garner international support, Israel adhere to their policy of hitting back harder than Hamas ever can. They're as bad as each other.

Generations of politicians, UN sec-generals, military leaders and other international brokers have failed to solve the problem. What's the answer? I don't know. Realistically, I'm not sure anything can be done. Israel are determined to defend (and expand) their people and borders. Hamas and the other groups are determined to kill Israelis with the ultimate and presently unrealistic goal of taking back their lands. Neither will budge.

What do you suggest they do about it?

According to the BBC website Hamas are hoping that reports and images of wounded and dead Palestinians will elicit both sympathy and funds from supporting/linked groups across the wider area.
But that remains, like a lot of this thread, as speculation.

Israel should let a few rockets hit, let the 'score' get a little bit less one-sided. They'd probably get a bit more support that way and also all the bandwagoners on my Facebook/Twitter timelines looking for a "cause du jour" would have a harder time of deciding how to display their outrage and who to direct it towards.

#StopKony2012 #BringBackOurGirls #FreeGaza

Israel agree to a cease fire, stop bombing just as the cease fire begins then get upset as Palestine are retaliating as the cease fire starts even though they weren't even consulted or told about the cease fire. Have Israel now managed to gain higher ground on the issue or has the "cease fire" been seen for what it really was?

If they both did agree to a cease fire....again, how long would it be before normal service resumed?

What real options are available to halting the violence between the two?

You've asked similar questions twice now, and I asked you directly in return a few posts back.

Perhaps you could try answering the question yourself. Don't be another Chris28, full of critical questions but never any meaningful suggestions.

I'll have a go then.

Instead of allowing ever more settlers to uproot and evict Palestinians, why don't Israel retreat back to the pre-1967 borders, as mandated for years now by the UN?

Maybe once they do that and assuming Hamas continue to "attack" Israel, they will have some tangible evidence that certain Palestinians do not want peace at all

That would be ideal. Except it's a fantasy. The only way Israel will retreat to those borders is if the surrounding countries attacked and beat them back. They tried that once before and Israel are considerably more powerful now.

So, avoiding fantastical solutions and given the actual realities of the situation - neither Israel nor the Palestinians/Hamas will budge - what can be done?

I think I was pretty close when I said very little. The only effective action for me would be a complete reversal of US support and severe sanctions from the entire international community - economic sanctions, a total travel ban in or out of Israel, a complete trading ban, etc. But that won't happen either. The US is too deeply tied to Israel and the international community is weak.

So we just allow the bully to keep bullying its smaller neighbour?

Given Israel's past, it seems more than a little perverse that it is determined to visit the same privations on its neighbours that its own people suffered many years ago

My suggestion would be the same as cod'ead's.

My take on it is that most of it has stemmed due to Israel simply seeing how much land they can steal in one go without the international community sanctioning them (if it would even happen). Slowly but surely expanding.

All of the recent instability in the region has only assisted Israel in that the governments are so busy sorting their own countries out after 'uprisings' that they haven't got the time or capacity to give to the matter, whether that would help or not.

The problem now is that the situation has gone on for so long that I don't think Hamas will settle for simply claiming back their land anymore. There has been so much bloodshed and so many prisoners taken that I don't believe they can ever be neighbours.

What is a massive shame is that there are successful projects between the two including, but not limited to, a successful joint scientific venture. If only the leaders of Israel weren't so hell bent on grabbing land, and both so excited by rockets.

The American sponsored Isrealis are doing nothing but committing Genocide, but sure, believe all the lies spouted by the western media. Its not hard to find impartial reports, detailing the atrocities committed by Isreal towards innocent palestinians. Yes, Hamas are what you would call terrorists but aiming rockets at a 3 story building in order to kill one hamas member is despicable.

#OpIsrael

What would your solution be? Just let it continue?

You've quoted his solution. For America to stop sponsoring the murderers!

#OpIsrael

He did suggest that, but also stated that it was unlikely to happen so wondered what other solutions he thought there could be.

Whilst I do agree with your sentiment, and you will note from my earlier posts whose 'side' I am on and who started it, it does take two to tango!

Did I say that? I've offered my most realistic solution, even if I think it's unlikely.

What do you suggest 'we' - realistically, not some fantastical vision that simply will not happen - do about it?

Honestly I don't think there's a solution unless one side capitulates completely. Don't make the mistake of assuming that's what I think [ishould [/ihappen.

'Send Israel back to pre-1967' is not a realistic suggestion.


I've offered the most realistic solution I can envisage, even if I doubt it will happen. I'm not sure a solution exists short of the Palestinians capitulating entirely. As I said to fishface, don't make the mistake of assuming that's what I think [ishould[/i happen.

I'm all out of ideas. Perhaps you could come up with something that might work in the real world?

Why not? Pre-1967 before Israel started to expand on to land belonging to another country? Just because it would be difficult, why should it not be a target? The only barrier is the foreign policy of the USA which has been found to be lacking in support more recently.

Jon Snow was on fine form last night. Worth a watch on channel 4 news catch up

#OpIsrael

why doesn't the almighty god intervene and fix these warring nations, surely a few quick thunderbolts and a plague of locust would suffice?

If you don't see why Israel will NEVER go back to those borders, you don't understand the mindset of Israelis. They are too heavily invested in those lands, their entire raison d'être is to secure their historic lands and protect their people.

You don't set out on a diplomatic effort with a totally unrealistic goal. That's just stupid. IMO the best you can expect from Israel - unless the entire international community comes down hard on them - is to allow free movement across Palestinian borders. And Hamas will never settle for that so we'll soon be back at square one again.

The US is not the only barrier at all, Israel is a force in its own right. If the US withdrew support Israel would feel the pinch a little but they have sufficient stockpiles, manufacturing capacity and buying power to get through without too much trouble.

So I ask again - other than unrealistic ideals, what suggestions do you have?

One man's unrealistic ideal is another man's challenge.

Just because the Israeli's have dug in doesn't mean it's impossible to reach a middle ground between the two. I understand the mindset of the Israeli's, but that shouldn't mean that it's OK for them to do what they have/are doing and that nothing should be done about it. Good job people didn't say that about Hitler!*

The qualification that Israel are allowed to take land on the premise of what it says in a story book is ridiculous. Not just because the earths crust is constantly moving.

*I am not comparing Hitler and the Israeli's

I'm not saying it's "ok" for them to act as they do, and I've certainly not tried to qualify their land grab - but realistically, what can be done about it? That's the question I keep asking you but you avoid.

Saying there should be a middle ground and they should pull back to old borders is a lovely romantic ideal, but it simply will not happen. Yes, there should and they should, but there won't be and they won't. The Israelis have built populated settlements, roads and other infrastructure in those areas. They would never, ever force fellow Israelis out of their homes to resettle Palestinians.

Only if there's a complete change in leadership, policy and mindset in the Israeli leadership, and if the entire international community comes down hard with sanctions and unified condemnation, will you see any softening of their stance but it's unlikely any significant land will ever be handed back. The best you can hope for is an improvement in the living conditions of Palestinians and a cessation of hostilities - and for that you need Hamas to comply.

And if you remember there was a bit of a fight to sort Hitler out. Is that a solution you advocate? But perhaps Godwin's isn't the way to go.

Like a lot of people I don't have any meaningful suggestions and as it happens I agree with a lot of what you've posted. I honestly don't see how this can be stopped while both sides are so entrenched and one side is allowed to ignore UN resolutions while the other sends suicide bombers.

Edit - if I had any meaningful suggestions I wouldn't be on a rugby league message board.

And no need to get personal either, or is that a pic of you raging in your avatar

Sorry it's taken so long to reply, but to be honest, I can't think of anything else to put without repeating what I've said and agreeing with you. What I think should happen and what is realistic are two separate things, I agree.

I honestly don't think that this conflict will ever go away without Israel completely crushing Palestine. This would create a much larger conflict that would probably create a third world war by proxy although now is the time for Israel to strike (like they are) while other Palestinian supporting nations are busy at home.

Anonymous has successfully taken down numerous Israeli government websites along with publishing the names and personal details of high ranking Israeli army officials. I don't condone cyber attacks myself, it's just anonymous' way of showing their support for gaza.


#gazaunderattack
#tangodown
@youranonnews