Quote ="Ajw71"If you consider it to be 'bad' under this Government then you won't be voting for Labour at the next election as have said they will be tougher than the Tories on benefits. Remember a vote for Labour will mean it is worse than it is now.'" Oh really? www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/polit ... in-2289694 www.theguardian.com/society/2013 ... r-25-neets www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/09 ... 70129.html

Quote ="Ajw71"If you consider it to be 'bad' under this Government then you won't be voting for Labour at the next election as have said they will be tougher than the Tories on benefits. Remember a vote for Labour will mean it is worse than it is now.'" Oh really? www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/polit ... in-2289694 www.theguardian.com/society/2013 ... r-25-neets www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2013/09 ... 70129.html

I find it hilarious you actually know who I'll be voting for, you must be clairvoyant, please tell us this weeks lottery numbers so I don't have to jump through hoops to claim 90 odd quid a week.

Jump through hoops? You have to prove your case, sorry if that inconveniences you. Perhaps people should just be allowed to say they've a bad back or something and then get the cash, no questions asked. Sorry, you clearly can't be a Labour voter, your bleatings about the unfairness of it all would make you unable to vote for them as they've promised to be even nastier. My mistake.

I've got the ESA 50 in front of me. On the steps thing, you don't only have to say if you can or can't step up 2 steps, there's a "it varies" option as well, plus a lovely little box to fill in any additional info about using steps. I'm sure you can explain your issues with the form that asks you for answers but gives you the space to add on any other information.

All I can do is laugh at you





You really have no idea at all. I know you haven't been around here for long (or have you?) but I shouldn't have to prove to them or you that I have had hip replacements, knee replacements, foot fusions, joint damage, etc etc, a letter from the top professor in the country (at Chapel Allerton in Leeds), my GP, physio, occupational health, podiatrists and radiographers, should be enough.

Come back to me when you know what you are talking about, that goes for the ESA50 form you "have in front of you". I see you don't mention about picking up an empty cardboard box, nor lifting one arm to put something in your top pocket questions.

I suspect you are a troll and a very bad one at that.

My mother had her hairdresser round the house the day before she succumbed to her cancer because she fully intended to be going out that weekend, however you miss the point entirely - we, the taxpayer, paid handsomely for a private company to assess everyone on any sort of disability benefit in order to sort out the hundreds of thousands of shirkers that we had been promised were hiding behind fake illnesses, what they did in order to generate the numbers to justify the propaganda was tick the "fit to work" boxes for people with diagnosed terminal illnesses who then went on to prove their diagnosis correct by dying.

As if an employee with 2 million other unemployed to pick from would choose the one who has already been medically diagnosed as ready to die, anytime now, I mean, its hardly worth the bloody paperwork is it ?

Of course its not the first time in recent history that a regime has used the dying to work until they literally expire...

Yet another in a lengthening list...

[urlhttp://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/benefit-cuts-blind-man-committed-2965375#.Ur6V1aPxVTK.twitter[/url


Yes its The Daily Mirror and yes you'd expect it to take an anti-government stance, but extract the relevent details from the rhetoric and you have a story of a mentally ill person able to support himself in social housing whilst on a small weekly allowance provided by the taxpayer, the sort of thing that Margaret Thatcher was thinking of when she instigated the breaking up of the mental health institutions for "Care in the community", in fact the person in this story is a testament to the way that that policy should work when applied correctly.

Withdraw that support and this is the result.

We live in a very cruel society.

This is factually incorrect.

None of the major parties "promised ... NHS privatisation". Thus nobody voted for it.

Indeed, one of the "major parties" spent a lot of money on a huge poster campaign promising to cut the deficit and not the NHS.

And its leader stated: "There will be no more top-down reorganisations of the NHS".

Indeed, so if you had voted for that party in 2010 then you would truly be under the impression that there was to be no selling off of the NHS to private operators at all and that the organisation would be safe in that party's hands.

I do recall another party promising the abolition of student university tuition fees too, can't remember what happened to that party though.

This [urlhttp://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/02/iain-duncan-smith-tories-useful-idiot[/url pretty much sums up IDS for me, along with Gove he is the patsy, the fall guy for the governing party, defending what is sometimes indefensible with what are sometimes outright lies, taking the flak for what were always going to be distasteful economic policies, they are not experts in their office and neither do they need to be, their job is simply to keep David Cameron and George Osborne in a job and untouched by criticism and in that they are doing a damn fine job, the last couple of paragraphs in that article say everything you need to know.

they proved they didn't know what they were doing when they announced the removal of the Harrier from the Navy and Air Force as well as are only aircraft carrier as a way of saving money.

Newsnight exposed him some 11 years ago about his lying about his qualifications on his CV and his employment. It just proves that leopards really do not change their spots.

It does seem to be quite endemic in the tory party

You know, I was going to make some remark about the planned replacement aircraft carriers and not havign any aircraft to place on them and so searched for an up to date story on their construction...

...and found this

[urlhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24833555[/url

Very interesting and informative until you reach the very last couple of paragraphs and this one in particular...




And thats where you stop, and read it again, and sit and stare at the screen open-mouthed as you wonder what sort of fookwits we have in charge of our civil service when they "failed to factor in inflation AND VAT".

Failed to include VAT ?

WTF ?????????

Quote ="Hull White Star"All I can do is laugh at you You really have no idea at all. I know you haven't been around here for long (or have you?) but I shouldn't have to prove to them or you that I have had hip replacements, knee replacements, foot fusions, joint damage, etc etc, a letter from the top professor in the country (at Chapel Allerton in Leeds), my GP, physio, occupational health, podiatrists and radiographers, should be enough. Come back to me when you know what you are talking about, that goes for the ESA50 form you "have in front of you". I see you don't mention about picking up an empty cardboard box, nor lifting one arm to put something in your top pocket questions. I suspect you are a troll and a very bad one at that.'" Sorry, for the delay. Xmas and all that going on, so, what have I missed? Actually, you should have to prove you've had the procedures you claim, otherwise there'd be people claiming they'd had all sorts done and the authorities just accepting it as read. Lo and behold you do provide evidence from various medical experts. Why would I bring up the picking up of a box or the top pocket thing? You never asked me about those. So, what exactly is the problem with the question? Quote Can you pick up and move a large, light object like an empty cardboard box? No Yes It varies Use this space to tell us more about picking things up and moving them. Tell us why you might not be able to pick things up. If it varies tell us how.'" In fact, here's the form. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... esa-50.pdf This is your post from earlier in the thread. Quote How much pain did you say you were in on your ESA50 pre 2008 in the half a page box asking you to explain and which box did you tick to say if you could hold a pen in your ESA50 post 2010.'" Go and have a look at 5. Manual Dexterity (using your hands), there is indeed a "tick box", then right next to it, a lovely big box to explain further. Perhaps you've simply forgotten as you've got your money, no wonder you're laughing.

Quote ="Hull White Star"All I can do is laugh at you You really have no idea at all. I know you haven't been around here for long (or have you?) but I shouldn't have to prove to them or you that I have had hip replacements, knee replacements, foot fusions, joint damage, etc etc, a letter from the top professor in the country (at Chapel Allerton in Leeds), my GP, physio, occupational health, podiatrists and radiographers, should be enough. Come back to me when you know what you are talking about, that goes for the ESA50 form you "have in front of you". I see you don't mention about picking up an empty cardboard box, nor lifting one arm to put something in your top pocket questions. I suspect you are a troll and a very bad one at that.'" Sorry, for the delay. Xmas and all that going on, so, what have I missed? Actually, you should have to prove you've had the procedures you claim, otherwise there'd be people claiming they'd had all sorts done and the authorities just accepting it as read. Lo and behold you do provide evidence from various medical experts. Why would I bring up the picking up of a box or the top pocket thing? You never asked me about those. So, what exactly is the problem with the question? Quote Can you pick up and move a large, light object like an empty cardboard box? No Yes It varies Use this space to tell us more about picking things up and moving them. Tell us why you might not be able to pick things up. If it varies tell us how.'" In fact, here's the form. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... esa-50.pdf This is your post from earlier in the thread. Quote How much pain did you say you were in on your ESA50 pre 2008 in the half a page box asking you to explain and which box did you tick to say if you could hold a pen in your ESA50 post 2010.'" Go and have a look at 5. Manual Dexterity (using your hands), there is indeed a "tick box", then right next to it, a lovely big box to explain further. Perhaps you've simply forgotten as you've got your money, no wonder you're laughing.

I'm not missing any point, but you carry on patronising. Do I qualify as being unable to work as my condition, being alive, is terminal? Should we just make a law that companies aren't allowed to employ people with cancer in case they do die? What about non terminal HIV/Aids? MS? You know, just to be on the safe side?

From each manifesto, I won't say which, you can guess. And if you can spot the differences you win a shiny ha'penny.
1.


2.

3.


I like the last one best, very, very carefully mentioning staff co-ops, and in no way mentioning "independent" providers. Doesn't quite say private providers will be outlawed though. Just that they won't get the perceived favourable bias that they did under the Labour Party.

Manifestos are great reads, you have to really read every sentence, it's truly a testament to our population that each voter takes the time to read each one to make an informed decision.

Quote ="BobbyD"Sorry, for the delay. Xmas and all that going on, so, what have I missed? Actually, you should have to prove you've had the procedures you claim, otherwise there'd be people claiming they'd had all sorts done and the authorities just accepting it as read. Lo and behold you do provide evidence from various medical experts. Why would I bring up the picking up of a box or the top pocket thing? You never asked me about those. So, what exactly is the problem with the question? In fact, here's the form. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... esa-50.pdf This is your post from earlier in the thread. Go and have a look at 5. Manual Dexterity (using your hands), there is indeed a "tick box", then right next to it, a lovely big box to explain further. Perhaps you've simply forgotten as you've got your money, no wonder you're laughing.'" You can fill in the "explain further" box all you like, unless you know what turn of phrases they are looking for they will just ignore anything you put in there. And yes, I have my money, until June, when I have to go through the farce all over again even when the evidence suggests that nothing at all will have changed. I have RA which there is no cure for and it is a disease that only gets worse. Bit like when they are calling amputees back, just in case they have grown their limb back within the year. Like I said, come back to me when you can comment about it due to experience and not what you *think* you know about it.

Quote ="BobbyD"Sorry, for the delay. Xmas and all that going on, so, what have I missed? Actually, you should have to prove you've had the procedures you claim, otherwise there'd be people claiming they'd had all sorts done and the authorities just accepting it as read. Lo and behold you do provide evidence from various medical experts. Why would I bring up the picking up of a box or the top pocket thing? You never asked me about those. So, what exactly is the problem with the question? In fact, here's the form. https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... esa-50.pdf This is your post from earlier in the thread. Go and have a look at 5. Manual Dexterity (using your hands), there is indeed a "tick box", then right next to it, a lovely big box to explain further. Perhaps you've simply forgotten as you've got your money, no wonder you're laughing.'" You can fill in the "explain further" box all you like, unless you know what turn of phrases they are looking for they will just ignore anything you put in there. And yes, I have my money, until June, when I have to go through the farce all over again even when the evidence suggests that nothing at all will have changed. I have RA which there is no cure for and it is a disease that only gets worse. Bit like when they are calling amputees back, just in case they have grown their limb back within the year. Like I said, come back to me when you can comment about it due to experience and not what you *think* you know about it.

We get the point, you don't think that ANYONE is actually unfit to work therefore no form of support payment should be made to them, even those with less than twelve months to live with a degenerative condition should be exempt from working for money rather than just receive it from the state.

I don't think that you really believe that actually, you're just acting a tw*t because it makes you feel good on the internet.

I don't understand why anyone would want to allow people to claim benefits just on the say-so of those claimants. People lie. That is actually a fact. Benefits exist because those of us fortunate enough to be in work pay taxes. It is absolutely correct that anyone claiming a benefit - whatever the benefit may be - should provide the necessary evidence to support that claim. I have to do so whenever I claim jobseekers allowance (which at present I don't have to because at present I am in work). Why should a person claiming ESA not also have to provide evidence?

I have never said we shouldn't have to provide evidence. I am quite happy to do that. What I do say is that the evidence provided by GP's, Consultants and Specialists should be used as conclusive proof of illness/disability by Atos and the DWP instead of them going against specialist advice and finding ill people fit for work. I also don't think that evidence should have to be produced every 6-12 months when its a degenerative disease or an amputee for example. They are wasting your money by assessing these people in this time frame. But hey, what do I know

Most benefits aren't provided just because a claimant asks for them, even Child Allowance has to be accompanied by evidence that a child exists, claims for WTC and CTC have application forms which are at least a dozen pages long and ask for proof of right to claim which are individually checked (I've been checked) and disability/incapacity have always required proof from suitably qualified medical professionals and sometimes an interview with the Department providing the benefit (whatever name they were using for themselves at the time).

What is bizarre about the current situation is that you have a private business examining all medical claimants without reference to their medical notes or supporting evidence from their medical practitioners - take the example of the blind mental patient that I linked to two pages back - his ATOS assessment which concluded that he was fit for work and not entitled to housing benefit was carried out by a physiotherapist who had no experience of mental health issues or knowledge of his blindness, and why would a physio be expected to understand mental health problems, more importantly why would they be placed into a job that they have no qualifications for in the same way that you wouldn't call an ice cream van if your central heating boiler broke down ?