It plays nothing like FIFA. FIFA is clunky, sloppy and the play is generally scrappy. If FIFA passed like PES it'd be twice the game it is; FIFA's passing is woeful.

Not really fussed on the PES community's thoughts, I'm not part of that, I'm a FIFA player and I think PES' 'core' game play is better, it flows more, the touches and turns make things less predictable.

I'm playing Tom Clancy's Futre Soldier Ghost Recon at the moment. I'm no usually into war games but I'm loving this. 8.5/10 so far.

Max Payne 3?

Far too much cut-scenes and very repetitive gameplay. Wait till it hits budget price.

Oh, and he's still a mardy . 12 years on after the death of his wife and daughter, he's still waiting to die and still drinking.

Tbh I wasn't expecting you to mention the positive things the "community" have said about the demo. Only the negatives about PES, as usual!

His version of the 'PES community' is the local Howley youth centre near him. Do ignore.

You've clearly not read what I put as none of it is negative. A minor improvement on 12 is the general opinion, where is the negativity in saying that? As a one line summary it's accurate.

You are of course entitled to a preference of PES over FIFA (It's something I've suggested Roddy does to prevent his annual rant about how horrible FIFA is), but there is no foundation to the suggestion that Pro Evo is better than FIFA currently. As has been mentioned recently on here, PES has been lacking since PES6 on the PS2. It's never stepped up to this generation, the majority of it's fans will admit that and the developers recently admitted it as well, stating that they see the adoption of the 'Fox Engine' for the next PES game, which will apparently be for next-gen consoles, as being key. They themselves view the old engine used in this generation of games as the reason they fell so far behind.

They have recently changed the lead developer and the new guy said ""What we are trying to do is we are going to win back the crown when it comes to the next generation, that's what we want to do, and to do this we need to have a new engine. That's what we think.". Having played the demo it's clear PES13 is not significantly better than 12 and it would appear that their focus is further down the track and that they intend to get back into the race by launching with a better game than EA do when the new consoles come out.

We got the Olympics game last week despite some ropey review scores. We've had an absolute riot on it. It's good because it's not just button mashing, you have to time it as well. In the 100m for example, rather than just mashing the buttons, you have to keep a speed bar between two lines, go below and it it goes yellow and you slow down, go above and it goes red and your athlete's timing is off and they stumble etc. It sounds easy, but maintaining the perfect pace over the 200m is just so, so challenging.

The other events are varied, the likes of javelin, shot put, long jump are your usual speed then angle based affairs and are great. Archery is really good, swimming is too, done with the sticks as your arms and all about timing. There is only really diving that is a mess on it. It's one of those games that would be really, really dull in single player and will have a short life span, but in multiplayer with your mates or family, it's a fantastic laugh. Most of our games end up with the winner standing up, pointing at the screen and reading out their time/score and the others collapsing back into the couch in disappointment.

Graphically it's fantastic as well, and credit to them for capturing the atmosphere and look of the games, despite them obviously having to develop it months in advance.

Your house sounds perfect for a Wii Saddened, why the hate?

The Olympics game is similar to the Wii in that no doubt it will be short lived, now the games are over it'll no doubt drift away and not return until the kids see athletics on the TV sometime in the future, or a post-pub game when everyone is bored of FIFA. Well worth the £25 we paid for it though, when you consider it's been played more than our Wii was and that cost £150+.

I just think the Wii was the most cynical marketing coup since the iphone. It's a device that was technologically inferior to the other consoles, it's games were vastly inferior, they had no depth at all just a gimmick that lasted as long as the adverts Nintendo spammed TV with, and yet almost every household in the world were roped into buying one. Superb from a business perspective, but utterly terrible as the gaming device it was meant to be. I waited years for someone to show me a game genuinely worth owning, but they never managed it.

Anyone who likes 3rd person shooters, or shooters in general should give Binary Domain a try. One of the best games I've played this year. It's by the guy behind the Yakuza games and Sega.

Great Blade Runner inspired story, great boss fights, great cut scenes and solid gameplay.

The Olympics game is alright for an hour. It has the most annoying commentator

FIFA is for kids with no skill. Pes is for pros. Speaking of kids, I decided to take a break from proper gaming (eve online) and play some kiddy gaming (Xbox). I read the reviews for dead space 2 and they were fantastic. I'm on chapter 3 and all I have done so far is enter a room, kill a monster, rinse and repeat. I know console games are dumbed down for the 99% of the player base (cretins) but dear god this is just terrible. Even wow is more interesting than this

What did you set out to achieve with this post exactly? Just to insult as many people as you possibly could?

FIFA has far more depth than the current PES, your point was valid in 2005 though no doubt. Your point about console gamers is very last century as well, PC gaming is just very geeky now. You might want to reassess your opinion as the near future will see cross platform gaming on Xbox Live as the main way to play on PC.

But you know what I agree with you on Dead Space, it's one of those franchises that just didn't grab me at all. I played through the first one and found it horrible to play.

Seen a couple of videos of the FIFA 13 demo. Looks terrible and samey, the person that uploaded the video was blabbing on about the first touch being different, the defending being different and the producers alleging that the fitness will now actually have an effect on the match. I've heard this drivel every year and it always plays the same, the only thing that ever changes is the speed/strength balancing.

Played the PES demo, really don't see what Saddened was on about - it blows FIFA out of the water in just about every important area for a Football game.

What are you on about pal? The player who leads the team out in the tunnel has slightly shaded cheeks! Surely that's pivotal?

Nonsense. You've clearly not played FIFA. I'm all for a football game taking FIFA's mantel off them, but PES isn't it. Even the developers have admitted PES13 is still behind FIFA.

FIFA 12 is an awful game, FIFA 11 is a bit better, PES blows both out of the water - the passing is smoother and more accurate, the players make more realistic angles, the AI doesn't cheat and the game seems to reward passing the ball about over giving it to the fast bloke on the wing who will beat the entire opposition team on his own for 90 minutes.

But there is no AI on the demo at all. Close the AI down outside of the middle of the pitch and it will hoof it into the stands. The AI will not attack either, I've played the demo for a good few hours and never conceded a shot let alone a goal. There is also no pace in the game at all, all the players have the same physical attributes. It's easy to make statements like 'it blows FIFA out of the water', but it'll get lower review scores than FIFA and it's developers have admitted the franchise has a lot of catching up to do, which says it all.

The best chance for Pro Evo regaining it's position as the best football game is this time next year when the next generation comes out. Pro Evo's developers are already working on the new engine and will have more than 12 months work on it before it comes out. Hopefully that game can genuinely blow FIFA away and force EA into improving, current PES isn't doing that.

Anyone bought sleeping dogs? Thoughts.

Quote ="A unknown superstar"Anyone bought sleeping dogs? Thoughts.'" Watch this and make your own mind up - www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb1ehwH97pA p.s. it's awesome

Quote ="A unknown superstar"Anyone bought sleeping dogs? Thoughts.'" Watch this and make your own mind up - www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb1ehwH97pA p.s. it's awesome

I was going to buy it yesterday based on it's excellent review scores, but there was a nagging doubt about it so I didn't. Having seen the game and the others from it's developer come through in the magazines, I must admit I was very suspicious of the scores. The game was dropped by it's publisher twice I believe for not being good enough and I think it got cancelled by the developer only to be resurrected a year later, yet somehow they seem to have managed to pull it off.

I'm really in two minds about getting it also, in all honesty I don't think I'll bother. Might when it becomes cheaper.

Definitely buying Sleeping Dogs, looks like a right laugh!

Looking at the FIFA 13 trailer, it looks EXACTLY the same, just the first touch system is improved. Not impressed so far, will wait for the demo before I decide.

Yeah but to most FIFA fans the fact that its a decent game or not doesn't make a difference. The fact that it has FIFA in the title makes it the best game ever.....

I've always seen FIFA as your team bringing a new kit out. Even if it looks almost similar to last year and no matter how awful it is you'll still waste the 40 plus quid on it every year cos its a more upto date version than the one you have!