Funnily enough I dont read newspaper's, I watch quite a lot of political and news programs though ,enough to form my own opinion and I have no need to copy left wing scribes work and try and pass it as my own opinion which seems to happen on here ,the same left wing scribes who are turning the working man away from the labour party

You think "left wing scribes" (I honestly couldn't name one? That bloke who writes about politics for the Daily Mirror maybe?) are driving the "working man" away from Labour?
I really don't think they have that much influence - indeed the only reason you'd think they did if some left wing nutter says something which gets amplified by the frothy-mouth brigade on the right.
The press people actually consume and which sets the agenda in this country is wildly right wing.

I think the likes of Owen Jones, Grace Blackely, Ash - I shag like a hooker - Sarkar and the whole Novara/Momentum crew do alienate the normal working man - these are very privileged very well paid individuals looking down on the common man and basically saying to them "you must be stupid because you don't think like I do" - a bit like the left leaners on here.

This is the voice of young Labour - not sure how sitting in your posh flat in Shoreditch helps you relate to the average voter in Hartlepool?

Get us Healthy

And yet, a (very) well off, former London Mayor, does.
The irony is unbelievable.

Labour screwed up over Brexit in spectacular fashion and "the red wall" and places like Hartlepool have certainly not forgiven Labour, nor should they.

It's quite scary that less well off people believe that Boris and the Tories have suddenly changed and actually become compassionate with they poorest in society.

You clearly havent seen the story of the young lady that took her own life after benefit payments were slashed.
A direct policy of the government.

It will never really be known if that is why that young lady tragically took her own life. The Tories have increased the minimum wage significantly and well above inflation, they have also increased personal allowances repeatedly during the last 11 years - so to say they are not in touch or don't impact the poorest in society doesn't hold water.

I would agree with you in respect of Boris - thankfully he is more of a figure head than an actual functioning member of the Government and there are plenty of Tories in the government who has had jobs at the coal face and do understand what is required. How many of the young Labour elite's have actually done a job that requires understanding and motivating people to be the best they can be?

Precisely mate

Sorry bud, you've got this wrong, again.

The government employ a 3rd party company to deal with benefits claims and to reduce them.
Claims are supposed to be dealt with fairly and yet I know 2 people who's circumstances had not changed between "reviews", yet both had benefits "stopped" as they were deemed fit for work.
Both of these people appealed (and needed help in doing so) and their benefits were re instated. However, this process takes several months, in which time they have to live on fresh air or, the good will of those who know them.
One of the people I mention, literally stopped eating and the other had a serious breakdown.

As I said, you haven't got a clue what your talking about.

This isn't about "the Labour elite", its about core beliefs on how people with particular needs should be treated.

I've heard of Owen Jones but the others are mysteries - as they no doubt are to the vast majority of people in the UK.
They may be famous in left wing and right wing echo chambers, where they may generate support or fury, but I really do not see them having a wider impact.

Many working class people have always been culturally conservative but the Labour party as the party of working people represented them generally. In an era of American-style culture wars, fostered by right wing media outrage machines, it is perhaps understandable that this sort of identity politics is now taking hold - with economic considerations and policies now a secondary factor.

These are the not the normal cases in fact they are very rare - increase of minimum wage etc impact millions - if the lack of benefits was a suicidal contributor then we would see far more cases - I would suggest these cases are far more complex than you are suggesting - but of course you know best (sic)

I would suggest that most people do better under the Tories than they ever do under Labour - of course your red boxers wont allow you to see the wood for the trees. The idea that every Labour politician has a higher level of behaviour/care than any Tory simply doesn't stack up - hey Keep the red flag flying

That’s not bad. I fear the libertarian right would read it as a bit preachy and nanny state-ish, but there’s something there.

How about ‘A Healthy Britain’, with implications about the wider malaise and a dash of Unionism? Extra beat again, unfortunately.

This is much more fun than a meaningful exchange of ideas! Yay for slogans and politics as a reality gameshow!

For the many ,not the few
That worked well

On a serious note though ,Starmer and a Raynor have both said that Labour need to connect with the working man but can they with momentum lurking in the background

Arguably it did because that was 2017. While we now know that six words is massively excessive, it did show that a 3-word, 4-beat slogan (strong and stable, in that case), can falter if delivered by somebody too thoughtful. For the many (full stop) is maybe worth revisiting at some point.

Labour had ‘It’s time for real change’ in 2019. Down to just 5 words (with the contraction) but so memorable I had to look it up.

I think in 2017 though Labour promised to respect the referendum result and put it out there that they would scrap student debt if elected, in 2019 they didn't

Both parties want a levelling of wealth but their methodology is quite different. Labour want to level down, the Tories want to level up. These are not difficult concepts to grasp.

Nor was the geocentric model.

Right, that doesn’t really justify a mic drop - but I need another break from this. See y’all in a week or so good buddies.

Look - over there! A straw man!

Look over here - a human incapable of thinking for himself!!

If your "thinking for yourself" takes you as far as simplistically saying, "Labour want to level down" then I'm cool with being anything you're not.

A tad childish ,dont you think

I'll bow to your knowledge on that subject.

I appreciate rationale thought is beyond your capability but can you name a socialist country where the average wealth of the citizens approaches anything that of a capitalist country? The only way Socialism works is the centre controls everything and dishes out pocket money to its citizens. How do you grow that type of economy to the betterment of everyone, where is the competition and the need to develop - I mean in reality not in theory. At least in a capitalist economy the idea is encourage innovation and growth. Yes to much will end up in a few hands that is unavoidable but over time things will improve - has the average standard of living increased or decreased over the last 30 years and if we agree it has has it improved faster than in say Russia, many of the Socialist regimes in Africa - how about Cuba or Venezuela?

Britain is a socialist country.

But yes, as pretty much everyone knows, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Germany etc are prime examples who have somewhat more socialistic policies as part of their mixed economy than we do. For some reason you'd rather choose a bunch of tinpot dictatorships or wannabe dictatorships as if that was what any party other than the Conservatives were offering.

It's such a dumb argument - paying a bit more in taxes for better public services will only take us back to the levels of taxation in the 1980s. It might cause you or Scrooge McDuck immense anguish but it isn't going to turn us into a failed state. Plenty of other things will do that first.