And here we have a prime example: someone who just doesn't have a clue.

Take this in: you do not need gloves, and you do not need sanitisers.

Gloves: are meant for medical/care settings, where (like some other PPE) they are discarded after each individual patient contact to prevent cross infection. If you wear them throughout the day at work or your visit to the supermarket, all you do is accumulate nasties on your gloves and spread them to everything else you touch. You are doing lots of damage and absolutely zero good to anyone, including yourself. Just wash your hands regularly in soap and don't touch your face.

Sanitisers: can kills viruses, but only if they are over 60% alcohol - ideally over 80%. Common soap is generally better at killing viruses. That's why the rush on sanitisers at the start of this was ridiculous, and why the 20 second hand-washing advice was issued - the advice you all mocked, yer know, cos y'all know better.

Prove me wrong. Go on.

.
That has made my day

Like I said to the other moron - prove me wrong. Go on.

Hint: you can't.

I presume you took the name from Greek mythology because you usually post from his Greek predecessor.
I bet you still believe that the government is going to build 40 new hospitals and employ 50,000 new nurses.

Tell me again why you think gloves and sanitiser are so important, while you ignore the facts I've placed before you.

I'm still waiting.

Very enjoyable though, been back for 2nd's.
Poor old Mrs Flashman.

You have done well there - you have managed to put 7 words together - that's a first for you

Thanks.
It must have been my private scholarship you champion so well that swayed it for me.
Then again, I could just regurgitate from Con-HQ and their social news feeds, like your compadre, to give me an elevated sense of importance, but hey, I'd come across as dull as him.

Well let’s see.
Let’s play a game called pick the job and will have a look at the feasibility of dong that job without gloves or hand sanitiser.

Starters for 10

Factory worker picking some tools up. Not sure who else might have picked them up. Either has his gloves on or alternatively has to use hand sanitiser because walking off the production line every 20 minutes to walk to the nearest toilet / sink is not feasible.

All of The People who are currently wearing gloves at work will be joined by millions more who will also need gloves Or hand sanitiser.

Interesting that the government is directing bus stations and transport hubs to provide hand sanitiser for passengers.

They obviously ignored cronus’ advice that we don’t need hand sanitiser.

Seems like hand sanitiser has become Cronus’ Marie Antoinette let them eat cake moment.

But of course you know this .

What you are actually doing is trying to justify going back to the herd immunity arguement as if you don’t have protective equipment than it is good if people catch it .

Problem is that no one knows how long immunity lasts or the impact of catching it again.

But then again we do not know that it affects poor people and BAME groups more.

Maybe that is Cronus’ motivation.

Tut tut.

A good moderator should really moderate your post.

Surely it's too obvious to point out that poor people and BAME groups tend to live in more crowded communities and live unhealthier lifestyles, so leading to being more prone to ANY illness, never mind Covid19??

Good god I'm surrounded by them.

The post was in reply to the claim "all of the working people in the world" require "gloves and sanitizers for x millions of people for five/six days a week for 12-18 months? Nobody wears one pair of gloves for 8-10 hours a day" Presumably you believe the same?

Yes, of course sanitiser is useful where soap & water isn't practical, but only as long as it has sufficient alcohol content. But the fact is most people don't need "gloves and sanitizers for five/six days a week for 12-18 months". The key point - which you ignored - is that common soap is better at killing viruses.

Gloves - once again - are meant to prevent cross infection. You're not wearing gloves to protect your hands, are you? You don't become infected via your hands, do you? The whole point is not to touch your face - wearing gloves or not is utterly irrelevant - in fact wearing gloves instils a false sense of confidence and only promotes spread.

Your worker wearing gloves will just spread whatever he touches everywhere else - unless he changes gloves every time he touches something new, which would just be ridiculous. Let's say your worker is on a production line. He infects everything he touches with the infected gloves - which then moves down the line and infects everyone else presumably wearing gloves, who also spread it everywhere. Those tools he picked up? Infected with whatever was on his gloves, which have been doing the rounds for a few hours.

Let's say someone in an office wears gloves. They pick up CV19 from a door handle. Because they're wearing gloves they don't wash their hands as often, if at all. In the next 10 minutes they make a brew, touching the fridge handle, kitchen door, tap, kettle, milk and biscuit tin. They return to their desk and type, infecting the keyboard and mouse. They go and chat to a friend, touching various pieces of furniture along the way. They type on their phone. All infected. They touch several door handles moving around the building. Infected. They throw their gloves away and think they're safe.

As soon as they get home they're on their infected phone without gloves and pick their nose. Get it yet?

Exactly the same as someone who wears gloves to go shopping, drive their car - all they do is spread whatever they pick up on their gloves.

I bet you all ran out panic buying toilet roll as well.

For all those who apparently know better:

[url=https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/coronavirus-nhs-doctor-gloves-tiktok-video-gloves-surgeon-a9448856.htmlWearing gloves spreads the virus.[/url
[url=https://www.health.com/condition/infectious-diseases/coronavirus/should-you-wear-gloves-to-the-grocery-storeWearing gloves "is not a good idea during coronavirus".[/url
[url=https://theconversation.com/coronavirus-the-danger-of-latex-gloves-134701The dangers of latex gloves.[/url
[url=https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/wellness/you-shouldnt-be-wearing-gloves-to-go-grocery-shopping/ar-BB11YPuZYou shouldn't be wearing gloves to go shopping.[/url

[url=https://www.cdc.gov/handwashing/show-me-the-science-hand-sanitizer.htmlThe CDC recommends soap and water over sanitiser for several reasons.[/url
[url=https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/28/hand-sanitiser-or-hand-washing-which-more-effective-against-coronavirus-covid-19Soap and water recommended over sanitiser, for many reasons.[/url
[url=https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/carolinekee/lets-settle-the-hand-sanitizer-versus-hand-washing-debateProper handwashing is the gold standard.[/url
[url=https://www.uchealth.org/today/why-soap-and-water-work-better-than-hand-sanitizer-to-remove-the-coronavirus/Why soap and water work better than hand sanitizer to remove the coronavirus.[/url

I think we can be clear that "all of the working people in the world" do not require "gloves and sanitizers for x millions of people for five/six days a week for 12-18 months". The vast majority just need to wash their feckin hands in soap & water properly, and often. Virtually no-one requires gloves.

Yes, obviously sanitiser can be more convenient and most will probably do the job. But read some of the links and you'll see why it's not always doing what you think it's doing, for several reasons. And it must have sufficient alcohol content.

Knock yerselves out.

No point trying to have any kind of rational debate with most on here - their inability to think beyond the very basic level shows in almost every post - as I said in the safeism thread they think the government should protect them from all adversity and when it happens it is never their fault.

I'm struggling to get my head around the stats!

Back when Bojo announced the lock-down there were 967 new daily cases, now six long weeks on, we're bumping along around 4,000 new cases each day.

I presume if he hadn't implemented the various measures the daily figure would have spiraled into the twenties, maybe thirty thousand a day. However, the fact is there are still a shedload of new cases each day.

My question is, if everyone is abiding to the rules, how come there's 4,000 new cases every single day?

Yep, they aren't
(some certainly are, sadly some definitely aren't).

Myself and the girlfriend live apart (more than an hour's drive). We haven't seen each other since mid-March but have both witnessed neighbours with family and friends coming and going.

Abiding by the rules? You must be joking! I walk the dog once a day, every other day, and go out in the car once a fortnight to the supermarket. Some of the things I'm seeing first hand (and hearing second hand) don't look or sound like 'lockdown' to me.

I think first & foremost is the behaviour of a moderator on here which is borderline disgraceful, what is your objective here to bully & intimidate? That's great for advertising...
Anyway, for 14 years I worked in laboratories and for 10 of those years I was the health & safety representative- basically I care what happens to others and I'm comfortable being vocal about it. 6 of those years I worked in a government facility bio-hazard laboratory analysing for low level radiation - it actually could have be worse it could have been high level radiation..anyway...,I wore layers pf PPE, used extraction fans, the lab was washed & cleaned down twice a day, the lab had a decontamination dress/wash area. No matter what process or PPE we used we all would pick up reoccurring ailments triggered by the samples we were analysing, for me it was always my skin. In the end I decided I wasn't being paid enough for that risk and ended up being an accountant at the almost double the money. Sadly, being an accountant isn't anywhere near the job of working in a lab but for the last 15 years I haven't had any skin problems. What you appreciate and respect is viruses/nature finds a way of spreading. Mostly due to things you can't foresee and I think of the world at this moment in time as an open lab that has this virus circulating around it feeding of those people who don't comply to simple instructions. I have the wipes, gloves and spray for any deliveries - I even leave them standing for 24 hours after all of that. I have the same equipment in my car when I go shopping - I really appreciate the cleaner at ASDA who sprays my trolley with the disinfectant, with actions like that we have a chance of eliminating this virus. Just remember it takes one asymptomatic infected person to bring all your efforts back to square one again. If you want to send loved ones repeatedly out into the current climate without PPE or sanitizer etc then I actually feel ashamed for you.

On another note, the great Dr Anthony Fauci was giving an interview the other night in which he says the analysis from autopsies on COVID 19 deaths virus shows signs of thrombosis, I've attached another link. https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-19- ... d=70131612 Therefore it might be wise to eat some more of this blood thinning stuff: https://www.healthline.com/health/heart ... de-effects Now is a great time for cooking everything in garlic , this house stinks of it just about every evening.

On another note, the great Dr Anthony Fauci was giving an interview the other night in which he says the analysis from autopsies on COVID 19 deaths virus shows signs of thrombosis, I've attached another link. https://abcnews.go.com/Health/covid-19- ... d=70131612 Therefore it might be wise to eat some more of this blood thinning stuff: https://www.healthline.com/health/heart ... de-effects Now is a great time for cooking everything in garlic , this house stinks of it just about every evening.

It's unfortunate but some people are too thick, selfish or arrogant and a good swathe too lacking in empathy, mostly Tory voters of course

Indeed, and some of the thickest, most selfish and most arrogant even brag about it, on RLFANS forums for example, and damn the consequences to the rest of us.

Ignorance and arrogance in equal measure.

Yes please do lecture me on the correct use and efficacy of PPE; the arrogance of the Tory fanboy, who "follows the science" - provided that science is advantageous to whatever position he's taking today. When there is divergence of course, either the science was wrong, or we're sick of experts. All from a position of sitting comfortably at home on furlough, obtaining expert knowledge from Google.

With regards to ineptitude - as I've explained to Sal Paradise at least 4 times; no, the fact that the care sector didn't stockpile PPE was not an indication of ineptitude - because we weren't privy to the findings of Operation Cygnus, which made that recommendation - the Govt were, and *chose* not to. Had they done so, they could have made it available (at market rates, before Sal trots out his other regular attack line about private orgs wanting freebies.) So all of the well publicised struggles of obtaining PPE now - which is entirely understandable when the whole world wants it - could have been mitigated in part by implementing the recommendations of their own exercise.

On that basis, I won't wind my neck in ta - I'll carry on highlighting all the ways that the Govt has failed the care sector - because unlike many of the apologistas, I actually know what I'm talking about; my network consists of MD's and CEO's of all the main players in the sector, and I can confidently assure you that I am not a lone voice - and most of these people are natural Tories. See it's ok to be broadly in support of a party, but be critical of some of their actions when the situation warrants - which this one clearly does.

Having said - Boris nearly died, whilst remaining chipper and in charge at all times - so I wouldn't want to be too hard on them; having one of the worst excess mortality rates is probably just a counting error.

I don't think anyone is suggesting there aren't struggles in the social care sector - with an ageing population this situation only gets worse. Unless we are prepared to pump more money in then there is only one logical outcome - more stress on the system.

We can talk around the houses about PPE - the finding of Cygnus were well know - Bill Gates had published many times in respect of a pandemic being the next big interference to humans. So you can't blame the government for doing exactly what you did is invest the cash where it delivers the maximum returns - in your case better care homes in the government's case more operations.

Has this government made a mess of this - yes in my view it could have done things a lot differently - hindsight is a great thing.

Oh do give it a rest. It's not 'my' science, it's 'the' science. And you've completely ignored it all as usual in favour of another rant and ignored every question as usual. You know for a fact the WHO and the majority of scientists have said all along face masks are almost useless in the general population, but there can be very small benefits to prevent spread if someone is infected. There are countless studies to back this up. Social distancing is felt to be far more effective as a single measure.

However, and as I said, I've always been of the view that a small benefit is worth it alongside social distancing - and I didn't personally agree with the WHO, science and consequently the government's advice. But that advice has shifted slowly over the last few months as again, I'm sure you well know. So, not a fanboy but I understood why the advice stood as it did.

So no-one acted on Operation Cygnus? Did you act on Operation Winter Willow in 2007, which specifically found a surge in demand on face masks (and antivirals/antibiotics) would be an issue? Where's your 13 year-old stockpile? Not so rosy up on that high horse anymore, is it.

That aside, I presume had you seen the findings of Cygnus 4 years ago you would have immediately gone out and procured millions of items and stuck them in a warehouse? Spent millions of pounds on a stockpile of masks, gloves, gowns, goggles and face shields that would all require replenishing over time as items degraded? No you wouldn't, and don't even pretend you would. You probably wouldn't have even been given permission. I have no idea who you work for but I can't think of many CEOs/boards/trustees who would sign that off over more pressing and immediate concerns.

And I'm sure you'd have planned and equipped for this novel coronavirus, and not an H2N2-type flu pandemic as was the scope of Cygnus. You're dead good, you.