I would suggest that someone who quotes endlessly from the Daily Mail would definitely struggle with "moral".

Quote ="Hillbilly_Red"thought the argument would go as it has OK to explain my point www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... ofcitizen/ '" What are you talking about? You said: Quote ="Hillbilly_Red" please note that the article states that spouses will not be allowed citizenship if the marry an Israeli citizen. We cannot throw stones: a [isimilar[/i law exists here for spouses of the Indian sub-continent.'" Thus, you alleged that we have a law which is similar to the proposition: "spouses of the Indian sub-continent will not be allowed citizenship if the marry a UK citizen." That proposition is bollox. It was pointed out to you that you were talking bollox. In response to this, to "explain", you simply post a link to a governement website which does precisely the opposite! Instead of saying anyone will NOT be allowed citizenship, it actually says in effect they WILL be allowed citizenship, as long as they meet the criteria, and helpfully provides full details of those criteria! I was going to ask how your thought processes had managed to reach a conclusion which is the exact opposite of the actual facts, but won't, as to be honest I am not interested. Quote ="Hillbilly_Red"I have had several issues in explaining this .... '" Now that I [ican[/i believe

Quote ="Hillbilly_Red"thought the argument would go as it has OK to explain my point www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/briti ... ofcitizen/ '" What are you talking about? You said: Quote ="Hillbilly_Red" please note that the article states that spouses will not be allowed citizenship if the marry an Israeli citizen. We cannot throw stones: a [isimilar[/i law exists here for spouses of the Indian sub-continent.'" Thus, you alleged that we have a law which is similar to the proposition: "spouses of the Indian sub-continent will not be allowed citizenship if the marry a UK citizen." That proposition is bollox. It was pointed out to you that you were talking bollox. In response to this, to "explain", you simply post a link to a governement website which does precisely the opposite! Instead of saying anyone will NOT be allowed citizenship, it actually says in effect they WILL be allowed citizenship, as long as they meet the criteria, and helpfully provides full details of those criteria! I was going to ask how your thought processes had managed to reach a conclusion which is the exact opposite of the actual facts, but won't, as to be honest I am not interested. Quote ="Hillbilly_Red"I have had several issues in explaining this .... '" Now that I [ican[/i believe

Has a precedent been set internationally for people to point to and use this exact comment? From a judge of all people!!!

[i"Human rights do not prescribe national suicide," Judge Asher Grunis wrote in the judgement[/i

ie. Put human rights on the back burner when it comes to preserving our identity, our people and our culture.

Anyone could now quote this and then challenge someone else of an opposing political belief as to why it is OK that one of their country’s strongest allies believes and practices it in their law and yet they are despised if they hold a similar belief.



I guess it's just another case as has been pointed out of an unlevel playing field in world politics. Some animals are more equal than others.

they tried it twice in 67 and 73 and we know what happened then mate.
ok israel was backed by us and probably the yanks then, but the arabs still went for them and got what they deserved. i doubt they would have the bottle to go after israel again.
plus, if your scenario was ever to happen, the israelis would launch pre emptive air strikes against all their air forces and missile sites.thus there would be no war.

If the Saudis decided to join the argument, it would be interesting to then see just how much backing Israel received from the US & UK

That'd be intriguing: our weapons against the Yanks' weapons.

Well, plus Israel's nukes.

The Saudi's would never attack - those despots struggle to control their own people never mind conduct a campaign against the most ruthless most organised fighting machine on this planet.

On the Nazi/Jews/Palastinian stuff - there is huge difference between control and complete extermination? You simply cannot suggest the gravity of both is anything like similar. Now if you were to compare the Nazis to the Hutus in Rwanda then I would agree - but of course that might upset the sensibilities of the "worthies" on here?

Do you plan getting rid of that chip any time soon?

Of course, you could provide some evidence that anyone here would be likely to underplay the Rwandan genocide – but that wouldn't be easy, would it? A bit like backing up your grand assertion that 'carers have big expense accounts'.

And ethnic cleansing is ethnic cleansing is ethnic cleansing – that is what Zionists have been trying to do since the 1940s. Poisoning village wells, for instance, is not just "control".

Whoosh



The point about Rwanda has nothing to do with underplaying anything with regards its severity



There is a huge difference between wholesale slaughter e.g. the Nazis and the Hutus and what is happening to the Palastinians - pity your prejudiced views make this simple fact beyond your mental capacity. This is not ethnic cleansing or anything close to it, especially if you are suggesting it has gone on for 70 years - it took the Hutus 100 days to kill a million now that is ethnic cleansing.

On a final matter unless you can provide evidence that I ever said carers had expense accounts please refrain from using this every time I suggest your pearls of wisdom are not gospel?

You did assert that carers were "obviously paid expenses" for travelling to and from their clients. I've no doubt that the original thread has now dropped off the boards but have no idea whether a mod has the inclination, let alone the ability to trawl back though the archives to find it.

Ah, but you don't deny it. Your careless choice of riposte allows of only the following possibilities:

1. You DID say it, but aren't sure if the record has been deleted; or

2. You DON'T KNOW whether or not you said it; in which case it doesn't matter whether you did or didn't, as if that was not your view, you WOULD know you'd never have said it.

Case closed.

Then one wonders why you decided to suggest that it might upset some of the board's "worthies" if the Holocaust was compared to Rwanda.

Now, given just how bad the Holocaust was, and the role it occupies in the collective mind and memory, it would have to be underplaying it to not see the Rwandan genocide as comparable.



It is ethnic cleansing. There's no rule somewhere about how long it takes or exactly how you do it, but that is what it is. Zionists do not want any Palestinians in what they believe should be Ersatz Israel.

Shall we do some quotes on this?

"We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves." Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.

"There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed." Golda Maier Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969

"How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to." Golda Maier, March 8, 1969.

"The Palestinians would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls." Isreali Prime Minister Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988

"[The Palestinians are beasts walking on two legs." Menahim Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the Beasts". New Statesman, 25 June 1982.

"The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more".... Ehud Barak, Prime Minister of Israel at the time - August 28, 2000. Reported in the Jerusalem Post August 30, 2000

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." Israel Koenig, [iThe Koenig Memorandum[/i

"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?' Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!'" Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.

"It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism,colonialization or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands." Yoram Bar Porath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972.

"One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail." -- Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 [Source: N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1

"We Jews, we are the destroyers and will remain the destroyers. Nothing you can do will meet our demands and needs. We will forever destroy because we want a world of our own." (You Gentiles, by Jewish Author Maurice Samuels, p. 155).

"Our race is the Master Race. We are divine gods on this planet. We are as different from the inferior races as they are from insects. In fact, compared to our race, other races are beasts and animals, cattle at best. Other races are considered as human excrement. Our destiny is to rule over the inferior races. Our earthly kingdom will be ruled by our leader with a rod of iron. The masses will lick our feet and serve us as our slaves." - Israeli prime Minister Menachem Begin in a speech to the Knesset [Israeli Parliament quoted by Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the Beasts," New Statesman, June 25, 1982

"What shocks and worries me is the narrow-mindedness and the shortsightedness of our military leaders. They seem to presume that the State of Israel may or even must-behave in the realm of international relations according to the laws of the jungle- -the long chain of false incidents and hostilities we have invented, and so many clashes we have provoked;" - From Diary of Moshe Sharett, former Primer Minister of Israel in Livia Rokach, Israel's Sacred Terrorism published 1980

The above are just a few.



See the posts from Coddy and this one:



Indeed. Along with revealing an inability to read a post properly and accusing me of suggesting we never eat bananas.

I know exactly what I said. I know it is the norm for senior members including moderators to make false accusations and hide behind the anonymity of user names. It is about time those involved either substantiated there claims or refrained from using them just because someone dares to question their pronouncements.

No i didn't - in response to someone's post that carers only got paid when they were actually caring for the needy and their travel time between patients was excluded from their pay. I don't believe actually happens in the softer public sector, can't see any caring/sharing union allowing that. What I said was I can believe this happening if the work was contracted outside to private firms and you can be sure if that were the case the carers travelling expenses would be covered either through a company vehicle or rembursments of travel costs.

"There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?"
-- Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox),

"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country."
-- David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.

My dad's bigger than your dad!!

Read the AUP – the bit about criticising the moderators/moderation process. Inwardly digest.

Because I'm going to start classing this sort of whingy chippiness, with not a shred of evidence actually ever provided, as exactly that.

This is the only site I use that actively prevents public criticism of the moderation process. How ironic that your reference to it was in the "All animals are equal" thread

OK bye bye

Well. There you go. If you don't like it ...

Last night I ventured to Kilburn High Road to see Mark Thomas's show about his "ramble" along the wall that Israel has erected to control the Palestinians in the West Bank.
It is 723 km long but the "border" that it is supposedly built upon is only half that length ... why? ... well, for a start the wall is all built in the Palestinian lands, none of it is in Israel, and it meanders deep into the West Bank to encircle illegal Iraeli settlements (by no means all of the Israeli West Bank settlements but some of the bigger ones.).

These settlements (mentioned earlier) are not previously unoccupied desert brought to fruition by stateless Israelis settling on them in tents and shacks, they are like large comfortable housing estates built by Israeli companies, subsidised by the Israeli government (attractively cheap, a house is 1/3 of the price of an equivalent in Tel Aviv) and protected very visibly by Israeli soldiers.

If you look at a map of the West Bank, Israel's annexing (not just occupation) of East Jerusalem, plus the land on the supposedly Israeli side of the wall, takes the wall about half way to the Dead Sea.

Bit by bit, Israel is ratcheting its way across the West Bank.

As Mintball said earlier, this is ethnic cleansing and (IMHO) Israel won't stop until it has taken all the West Bank to the River Jordan ... or until it is forced to stop.

Thing is, no one is trying to stop them ... except some Palestinians, who are then branded as extremists.

[url=http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/settlers-who-went-too-far--even-for-netanyahu-6295350.htmlAn article from today's [iIndependent[/i on the illegal settlements that have built with government approval and money.[/url

Meanwhile Blair is fannying around and sunning himself in, of all places, the annexed East Jerusalem.
Great message Tony, well done son.

Who ever had the great idea of sending Blair to sort out the Middle East?

I don't know what you mean - if anyone should be able to sort it out it should be the Great Infidel Blair. I'm sure his God will have told him exactly what to do.

He'll have prayed about it with Dubya.