This forum does make me laugh;

Someone complains they can't get tickets to a gig. Helpful dose of reality ensues from some people, others balk and whine.

A related event is shared and the comments get mardy. Precious time wasted from the off.

That's the way it goes!

It's not an event I'm going to lose much sleep over missing. If however I'd worked my rocks off to get tickets for a favourite band and lost out to the touts I'd be turning up to the venue and kicking some heads in! Although it's unlikely to happen with the amount of pre-sale and priority schemes I've signed up for to avoid the disappointment of losing out to fly by night touts.

What, you expected a positive response?

You do realise most people detest ticket touts?

As Alan Partridge would say, "Scum. Sub-human scum."

I think that's a sweeping generalisation.

The reliance on the internet and phone lines has somehow convinced people that there is no alternative way to buy tickets.. My point hightlights the fact that if you queue up, you can generally get what you want, in more ways than one.

..and if someone wants something so much, they will get it.

Rubbish. Don't pretend you're providing a service or are some essential part of the supply chain. You're not.

You're a scab. A parasite doing nothing more than ripping people off, people who probably couldn't get tickets only because filthy scabs like you had snapped up massive numbers of tickets in the first place.

Yes, some people will pay well over the odds for an event. But they shouldn't have to so you can make a few pennies.

Don't like the truth? Don't rip people off and brag about it.

...on the other hand its the rule of supply and demand in its purest form.

Think sideways for a minute as you all tend to get rather sensitive when it comes to the thought of gig tickets for your favourite band - lets apply the rule to paperback books, lets assume that there is a release tomorrow of a popular novel in paperback and that its release is restricted to just a few thousand books and only available in Waterstones or Waterstones online.

What would you say now to those who buy ten copies and then sell them on at a premium (and find a market ready and willing to pay double or quadruple the face value), especially if the book can be read online (which most books can if you live in my postal area), would you be quite so critical or would you dismiss the issue as "the market in action".

I don't see it any different. It's basically denying fans the chance to purchase something at the RRP and taking advantage of the fact they are fans and forcing them to pay more than the RRP. Of course they don't have to buy it but where does that leave them? Without the book by their favourite author that they really want to read, that's where.

You don't "force" anyone to buy anything that they don't want, no-one ever bought a ticket (or any other product) from a reseller with a gun pointed at their head especially a product in the entertainment genre where you can pay a fraction of the reseller price (or free) to watch the same product online rather than live - yes its not the same "experience" but THAT is what you pay the premium for and THAT is what your free choice in the matter is all about.

Criticising resellers who are not doing anything illegal (despite what the originators of the tickets may try to enforce) is simply criticising the capitalist way of life, where everything you buy has had a markup, or several markups, applied.

You mean the same pre-sale and priority schemes the touts use?

But in most areas of the economy the markup does actually include something extra. For instance whilst Tesco charges the consumer more for the products they sell than what they pay the supplier they are doing something beneficial to you. They're making those products more easily available to you by bringing them to a shop near to where you live.

With ticket touts/resellers they aren't doing anything extra. The tickets are just as easily available from the supplier (artist/venue/production/whatever) than they are from the ticket touts/resellers. The touts/resellers aren't bringing anything extra and simply making a profit from doing nothing.

If the supplier (artist/venue/whatever) wants to use the supply & demand format to its full extent they could charge more than they currently release the tickets for (as the price is then jacked up by the touts/resellers afterwards). At least then that profit would be going to a person/organisation who's created something in the economy.

Personally I think that tickets for any events/gigs etc shouldn't be allowed to be resold over their face value. It would stop the touts/resellers buying up tickets on spec and open it up to the public more.

You've just answered your own question - when the tickets are just as easily available from the original supplier then you will find no reseller business to be had, its when there are NO tickets available from the original supplier that the reselling operation kicks in, or when purchasing tickets from a reseller is just more convenient - for instance you missed out online & couldn't take time off work to go queue for them, so you buy them on the night on the street from some dodgy geezer.



I thought they were already doing a fine job of that, when a friend of mine told me that he'd just shelled out £170 to see Fleetwood Mac next summer I thought he'd bought a whole block of tickets and was going to ask him how many he had and if there were any spares - turned out that he'd just bought two tickets, its personal choice of course and I suspect that the promoter would have sold those tickets at double that price had he only had the balls to ask, but when Fleetwood Mac started out in the 1960s did they ever believe that one day their live shows would only be viewed by millionaires?



Welcome to capitalism and if you are looking for sympathy to your cause from this current government then good luck with that.

Blimey, do you get this annoyed when paying for petrol in a built up area?

It was already mentioned earlier on in the the thread, Ticketmaster OWN a company that provides a reseller service. If there was no demand for these things, the supply would dry up and no doubt the law would reflect this change.

That's the issue. Modern touts aren't simply servicing a gap in the market as you describe, they're actually creating their own market buy buying in bulk and denying fans a fair shot at a ticket in the first instance. The Monty Python tour is a good example - within a few hours of tickets going on sale, nearly 6,000 were online at massively inflated prices. 6,000 tickets lost to genuine fans, who then have to enter the dirty world of touting and line the pockets of some rip-off merchant if they really want to go.

That's the modern norm and happens to varying degrees for every big gig.

Many of these tout firms are using netbots to bypass security protocols and buy in bulk. A genuine reselling market - ie, if someone has a ticket but can't attend for some reason - is something else entirely and while there is clearly a market for that, I suspect it's relatively small.

As mentioned above, a genuine reselling market is something else entirely, and of course there is some demand for that.

What you parasites are doing is nothing more than ripping people off to line your own pockets. It's not a service, it's opportunist profit-making at the expense of normal people. I blame the government in part for not having the balls or nouse to get a grip and until they do, nasty little people like you will continue to scam people out of money.

I rate you no better than the 'travellers' who use 'driveway resurfacing scams' to rip off the vulnerable.

Haven't most venues and concert promoters pretty much outsourced nearly all ticketing arrangements for concerts to ticket companies anyway? I'm going to a concert at the o2 Academy in Leeds next year. I bought the ticket from eventim simply because it came up as a promoted link when I was doing a search. I just went and checked if I overpaid by trying the o2 Academy website. Trying to buy from the o2 website sends you straight to ticketweb, a company owned by Ticketmaster.

My guess is that online ticket companies pay a very high percentage of the ticket price straight to the venues and promoters. Their basic costs are pretty much covered with their annoying booking charges, but the major profits will be made by charging ridiculous prices for the first few rows and for last minute tickets. I don't think venues were ever in a position to do that so they are happy to have the separation.

Whenever I've been to watch a test match/ODI I've always turned up on the day without a ticket, I've never failed to get a ticket below face value. Once it was half price. These are from touts or from people with a spare as a mate/client can't make it. Tout's have to sell, even if it's for a tenner for a fifty quid ticket, it's not like they can wait a couple of days to get their best price.

Yes. Just leave it to a minute before KO and then use logic - take what I offer or lose the full amount. Works - especially if you are not to worried about getting in and so are prepared to leave it until the last minute.

Fair enough, but I'm not convinced I have ever sold tickets to 'vulnerable' people. That's ridiculous

One easy way to cut that demand off at source, play more shows in bigger arenas, if bands want to play small shows to small crowds they they are going to be touted.



Hogwash put about by the major ticket sites to make people thing the touts are in some way getting around the feeble systems they have in place, in reality it's bodies online with multiple PC's and credit cards for the big boys and people buying six tickets when they only needed two for the small fish.

Neither have I, people with more money than sense more like.
However I have taken advantage of a vulnerable tout by holding out till show time to get a cheap ticket.

Things changed when eBay shuffled their ticket sales to StubHub and the auctions ended.

You're seriously suggesting artists should play more gigs at the biggest venues simply to combat touts? Don't be ridiculous. Some of these bands tour for months or even years as it is. They book venues according to projected demand - they don't want too many empty seats, nor do they want to undersell themselves. Neither would it particularly solve the problem. Touts buying up tickets increases demand for the reselling market - they would do exactly the same with any additional gigs, only losing out on occasion if demand dramatically drops off, which is a gig no artist would book in the first place.


Are you suggesting there are no 'resellers' out there with banks of computers running netbots hammering the official ticket sites whenever gigs go on sale? Of course there are. As you admit, their systems are 'feeble'. And of course there are individuals and groups doing the same thing. Either way it results in the same thing: touts and opportunists denying fans the opportunity to buy tickets unless they're willing to line their pockets at inflated prices.


Which isn't what I said. I said I view you similarly. Ripping people off by any means is a scum business. I presume you wouldn't pay well over the odds for most products or services, so I'm not sure why you think touting is acceptable.


I've bought many tickets at lower than face value - late 80's/early 90's Old Trafford was a doddle for a cheap ticket 5 minutes after kick-off. But touting in those days was lower-key, lower-volume. Let's say a parent today wants to take their daughter and friends to One Direction - you think they're going to drag them all out and hang around dealing with unsavoury rip-off merchants on the off-chance they can get tickets? Of course not. Neither will most others. If they can't get them via official means they'll buy online, at inflated prices.

I've offered a solution, increase supply and you reduce demand.




Promoters do the booking and take the risk, many promoters are tied in to certain venues, promoters are interested in money and have little to bring to the table, in fact many are in cahoots with the major players.



I'm not sure you know what a netbot is or does



Security is so poor that they don't need to bother, a few PC's and a few credit cards saves hiring an hour on a botnet, many promoters don't care who buys the tickets as long as they sell.



There is no rip off, if people don't want to pay they don't have to, no one is forcing them.



Just taking part in the capitalist economy dear boy.



Ah I see, when you were getting a deal touting was fine, OK I suppose if you are going to have standards best make them double.

I'll let you into a little secret, see all them resale sites, all with hundreds of tickets for the big events? A huge amount of those high price tickets don't exist, never did. They'll never get sold either...

Just to whizz back to page one and the very first post that started all of this, the OP states that they made the decision NOT to purchase tickets from a reseller site as they were going for almost 100% markup.

Thats your answer to the whole problem right there and its also the reason why its not a problem at all.

The answer to the perceived problem is don't go to the gig if you think that the original face value price is too high and/or the reseller price is a rip-off - why anyone would then go ahead and buy something that they've already decided is a rip-off I just don't know, possibly too weak to stand by their own principles?

The reason why its not a problem is that there is a solution (see above) OR its not a problem because the service is well frequented and suits the reseller, the promoter, the venue operator and the artist by filling the venue and creating a demand - or in other words good marketing, the same sort of marketing that goes into every other consumer product that is launched to a market where the consumer doesn't yet know that he/she needs the product and can't live without it (how the hell do Apple sell a product for twice the price of all other computer technology company's).