My comment was a bit of a wind up. In reality we did have coordinated policies for the Tornado and Eurofighter. Both however were flawed designs but as the Saudis have a history of buying British I suspect a deal was done to ensure continuity even though it was politically embarrassing.

And therein lays the conundrum.

You would expect that "allies" would share their technology (up to a point) but, regardless of cost and loss of business, arming dangerous groups should be absolutely off limits.
Of course there is diplomacy at work all over the world and deals done for all sorts of reasons but, the rationale of selling arms to the Saudis "because we have to sell them somewhere to balance the book" is just ridiculous.

Lets face it, the majority of recent conflicts involving the UK have been over oil or drugs, ultimately falling at the feet of our major ally, the USofA

So I'll ask again. How many thousands of jobs (people) are you willing to lose so we can salve your conscience? I don't mean this in a confrontational way but there would be a huge financial cost to individuals in taking the moral high ground. Would you be willing to sack them?

Counter question - Industries get wiped out all the time. The British coal, steel, textile, shoemaking and pottery industries have either all but gone, or have been reduced to miniscule operations in the grand scheme of things. Why does the arms industry get a free pass?

Because its one thing that we are very good at innovation - and its where the UK really a powerhouse. If we look at all the other things you mentioned these are commoditised they can be produced anywhere - we cannot manufacture mass produced products cost effectively that is not the future for high cost populations. Highly sophisticated planes/tanks etc now that is a different ball game.

As the saying goes keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer - if they are reliant on you for spare parts etc. to keep their war effort alive I doubt they will bite the hand that feeds

Although, and rightly so, it's a done deal with most of us, I wonder if Bozza will set a new record this evening, in the obvious, by telling us what a magnificent job our NHS are doing?
It could reach double figure proportion.

I haven't said it gets a free pass. People are questioning the morals of it and I'm asking how many jobs would people be prepared to lose. Simple question really that hasn't been answered yet.

Liked the Alpine tunnel analogy from our fearless leader.
Kuenssberg is Bozza's bitch.
Witty is weird.

Great performance by Bojo whilst flanked by 2 brilliant minds. Bojo resonates with the country.

Yes, your statement says it all.
Shake my head and just laugh along nowadays, the bitterness went a long time ago
Once you've accepted were a nation of dingbats it becomes a whole lot easier.

To be fair he only went and got a disease and had a kid to boost his popularity.

Thatcher and Blair started wars

So he deserves some credit

He has great ratings from the public. The majority of Bojo haters seem to be members of this site, quite bizarre.

If this goes on much more we will have to pray at the alter of the NHS - let's get some perspective here.

How much of it is 'propaganda'?

Nicola Sturgeon: ‘Face coverings could be useful.’

BBC ‘Confusing idea, weak evidence; Sturgeon is playing divisive politics.’

NEXT DAY

Boris Johnson: ’face coverings could be useful.’

BBC ‘Brilliant idea, well worth doing, will help bring the country together.’

succinctly put..

it's come to something that the only person calling these liars out is Piers Morgan of all people.

The British Govt are terrified of relaxing lockdown but recommending face masks - because they know that their ineptitude in procuring them means that public demand would absolutely kill the NHS and Social Care supply.

It's another example of changing the guidance to suit the availability of supplies - as highlighted during the Panorama doc the other night.

The numbers of people employed is not important here.
The ability for the country to defend itself should be the only issue.
Selling arms to our allies and possibly precuring supplies from them is acceptable but, producing excess supplies in order to provide employment seems crazy, even if "mass production" helps bring the price down

For our armed forces to be killed with "our" weapons seems absurd, especially if it's preventable.

Although your figure of 130,000 people employed is a hell of a lot of jobs, in the grand scheme of things, it's not a huge figure and if, say, 50,000 of those are making guns to be turned on our own soldiers, that would be madness.

130,000 DIRECTLY employed, so quite a few more will depend on the industry. I'm not arguing the rights and wrongs of arms exports I am just trying, unsuccessfully, to find out how many of those jobs you would sacrifice on your moral altar. BTW I think the numbers employed are VERY important to those people who rely on it for a living.

Appreciate it affects you personally but they said face coverings not masks - distinct difference

When Scotland suggested it they used scarfs, coverings could be made up of various attire could they not

Absolute rubbish.

Nothing to do with following WHO and scientific recommendations, of course? Oh no. Nothing to do with that.

Look, it's always seemed logical to me that although a crappy, ill-fitting mask will do next to nothing to prevent you catching an airborne virus, it could help prevent an infected person spread it by catching some of the infected droplets in their breath/sneezes/coughs. However, many scientific studies and WHO advice on this have been very clear from day one: unless FFP2/3 and professionally fitted, masks are mostly useless and therefore not required outside a medical/care environment. And that's before we even consider the lack of eye protection...

But - fast forward to the last few weeks and WHO advice has been gradually shifting based on a couple of studies in Hong Kong and other places, and if we're hoping to relax the lockdown soon it makes sense we take additional measures alongside social distancing, hand-washing etc.

And although I don't believe it was a factor bearing in mind face mask recommendations were already in place, so what if NHS supplies were prioritised? Do you not accept they are far more important in a medical or care setting? Or that if the government had recommended face masks, 67 million Brits all rushing out to buy all the masks they can find might have had pretty severely detrimental affect on supplies - which were already stretched beyond belief? Or in your brain is everything simply "Bojo and da Tories dun bad".

At the same time, you talk about ineptitude and complain incessantly of how the government/NHS struggled to maintain levels of PPE at times - well, so did you. Are you therefore inept? Shall we all slag you off in similar fashion? Multiply your struggles a million-fold and perhaps you'll get some idea of the challenges faced by NHS procurement, governments worldwide and probably 99% of general hospitals, doctor's surgeries and care homes on the planet. At least when you get hold of PPE you don't have 58,000 locations all demanding it. I think what I'm trying to say is, wind yer neck in: you, the NHS and the government are all doing the very best you can, and doing a grand job, in hugely challenging conditions.



Not that ignoramuses such as WIZEB would understand there's a lockdown in place. The law and doing his bit to help prevent the spread of the pandemic doesn't apply to him apparently.

You are a godsend to Johnson because if they said jump your first response would be how high. What do you know about PPE and social care are you involved in the supplying of one or the running of the other. If not I would suggest you restrict yourself to things you know about and that is gullibility.

So what do we all do for gloves and sanitizers when all of the working people in the world have to share toilets, taps, kettles, fridges doors, cupboard doors, microwave doors, door handles, light switches, stair rails, pubs/restaurant chairs, tables, doctors/dentists/hairdressers waiting rooms and treatment chairs, public transport chairs, handles, buzzers, exchange money to the above. That's gloves and sanitizers for x millions of people for five/six days a week for 12-18 months? Nobody wears one pair of gloves for 8-10 hours a day.