Who is going to invade Scotland? Realistically.

The only point of the British Armed Forces seems to be to intervene in other people's fights, so we can pretend we still matter as a world power. Scotland knows it isn't a world power, so won't care.

Anything is possible in the future, but given enough irn-bru and pirate copies of Braveheart it should be possible to mount an effective insurgency, if required.

Employment and recruitment wise it could be an issue.

So far you've said that the EU is great for the little countries at the expense of the bigger ones.
Now that it is pointed out that the big ones quite like being in the EU, your argument is that the big ones (France and Germany) aren't keen on each other.
What the chuff is that about?
They might not exactly be wanting to have each others' babies but at least they are talking to each other and, let's remember, have been on speaking terms ever since the late 1940's when they realised that having a bit of agreement and compromise might be better all round than periodic outbreaks of war.

A bit like Scotland and England really, who, after periodic wars with each other (with or without France), found themselves sharing a Monarch in 1603 (although they still didn't like each other much) and pooled their sovereignty in 1707 ... and eventually were partners in the greatest empire/enterprise the world had ever seen.

Now Scotland is looking at the EU and thinking that pooling sovereignty with them directly is arguably more secure and more democratic than staying in the UK.

Meh.

People who are pro-Europe would say all that. The rest of us disagree, so best not to get into it really. It's Friday, and I can't be bothered.

No need to wait. If you had half a brain cell, you'd have noticed that the proposition was rubbished well before you chimed in

When do we close the border ?

I am heading North of it when we do

Immigration is a very relevant point.

if for example Scotland did manage to make a success of it and it was a more prosperous country than England, it's a fair bet that it will be a lot more prosperous than areas around Tyneside/Teeside/Cumbria/Humberside so what's to stop a load of northern English unemployed going north of the border to look for work.

Scotland only has a population of 5.6 million and there are 14.5 million in northern England so Scotland could easily end up receiving large numbers of migrants proportionate to its population and they could end up absorbing unemployment from northern England.

You could "take the Black" and become a member of the Night's Watch, Guarding The Wall. Hull could become Winterfell

"People who are pro-Europe" ...or, in my case, a person who has actually taken the trouble to find out and, in the process has gone from voting "No" in 1976 to being pro_Europe now.

Most of my reply was facts and one doesn't have to be pro-Europe to recognise facts.

Out of interest, which continent do you think we're part of?

Are we Asian, for instance? What about North American – or even South American?

Even I have to admit that Westeros is much better than Essos, btw.

Ireland should be a sobering thought for any pro Scottish Independence people as Ireland have basically lost economic sovereignty due to the current crisis. The price for being bailed out is a bunch of unelected official telling them how to run their economy.

Add to the fact that joining the Euro (which Scotland would have to do) means agreeing to the budget controls of the Eurozone so no more deficit than 3% of GDP (I am sure from what I read the Scots run a higher one to fund their free uni education etc) they are ceding control from day one.

As to a Conservative government in England for the foreseeable future, no it would not mean that. Politics would quickly realign and as in 1997 a decade of incompetence will always ensure any government gets the boot.

It is not going to happen overnight anyway if it ever does so there is plenty of time for things to change politically in the rest of the UK.

[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16552623maybe any Scots with ideas of abandoning the Union should read[/url

Bad stuff will happen, but it can happen as part of the UK too. See 1976. It wouldn't be ceding control, so much as moving it - if London is seen as as foreign as Brussels.
It'd take away the psychological crutch of blaming the neighbours - a bit like the England's sometimes resentful attitude to the EU. In both cases, my opinion is 'together we're stronger' and that globalization requires a more internationalist outlook.
English politics would re-align to the right - my analysis was a bit facile, on reflection.
If, in theory at least, Scotland is an equal partner in the Union, do the consequences of it becoming a 'new' country, not also apply to the new UK?
If Belgium split, I'd expect both parts to be treated equally by the EU.

I hope, on balance, that it doesn't happen, but I get the impression from [usome of[/u this thread that there isn't a massive amount of respect for Scotland. A union of any type needs mutual respect.

Mintball. You're not stupid. So, please don't try and make out that I'm talking about a geographical continent, when you KNOW I'm talking about political union.

OK?

Salmond was a political joke for a great many years and if Labour hadn't (rightly) given Scotland local devolved govenrment he would have stayed that way. The SNP are a bunch of chancers who like so many politicians are in for themselves. The concept of Scotland suddenly becoming a completely seperate country is frankly laughable. This island is tiny, Scotland, Wales, and England have (apart from the anomoly of sporting teams) been the same country for so long splitting them up is as rediculous as Yorkshire declaring independence. My grandparents were Scottish, and I'm guessing that there are millions of English who have Scots ancestry somewhere. We had a Scottish prime minister not 2 years ago.
The SNP are looking at running Scotland unopposed for a long time if they get their way. They get to set the time and all the conditions for the referendum, without input from any of their opposition in Scotland or with any regard for the rest of the country they are actually part of (the UK). If the Scots do vote for independence the SNP can live off it for decades. Who would oppose them? The big losers will be the Scottish people, I see bleak times ahead if this bunch of clueless muppets get their way.

I'm British, my kids have English, Scottish and Irish grandparents and great grandparents, it would be a sad loss for me if this fat fool with the help of Mel Gibson manages to rake up enough anti-English sentiment to destroy hundreds of years of unity.

According to the opinion polls, if taken now, a referendum would not be in favour of independence.

Salmond knows that, he just wants to get another option that people might just go for (i.e. Devo max) onto the ballot paper so that he won't suffer a "defeat".
Trouble is, he says it's not up to him to define "Devo max" ... and Cameron (rightly, my goodness !) says that if it's not defined you can't put it on a Ballot sheet.

The Barbudo prediction is that is that the end-result will just be a little bit more autonomy for Holyrood.
Which, in the long run is probably good for the SNP because, if they actually got independence, I don't think the SNP would be in government after the first couple of terms.
I mean, once they'd got what they've been banging on about all this time, they'd have to actually be competent rather than just be anti-Westminster.

Personally I would welcome the Scots getting their independence and taking their Labour MP's out of Westminster.

Give them their "North Sea Oil" they keep banging on about and cut ALL subsidies.

Let them run a left wing "Nirvana" in Scotland, tax the companies to the hilt and watch them all come South.

Give the Conservatives 50 years of power in what remains of the UK (of Britain and NI) and we'll all be happy.

However, it's all or nothing. If you are out you are OUT. There should also be no option of rejoining.

Their call but let's get this nonsense off the table once and for all.

IN or OUT.

You know the best thing? You've got no say in it

I don't mind. Scotland is in the Union (and imo has earned the right to make it's own decision).

Another deluded right-winger who thinks that Labour only ever gain control thanks to the Scottish MPs.

You are aware that only ONCE in post-war elections has Labour needed the 41 Scottish Labour MPs to form a majority aren't you?

Ssshhhh you don't want to spoil his delusion.

It its YOU who is deluded......

You cannot quote that statistic as evidence of what I am saying. Demographics change, boundaries move.

e.g. The Lib Dems command a far greater share nowdays than they did after the war.

However, if it led to 41 fewer Labour seats at Westminster, it would be good for the country.

Sorry I'll rephrase my earlier comment: you aren't deluded, you are clearly mad - stark, staring bonkers, MAD

Aye, where is Shirley Porter when you need her eh?

You're right, the weaselling about "mostly out" options has started. The ballot papar will look like an IQ test by the time Salmond has finished. My feeling is that he thinks that the more options they put in the less likely people will vote a clear "No" to everything and the more power he will end up with.
Robert Mugabe must have been giving him lessons in running a rigged vote.