It seems that you have an ally, Tory MP Ben Bradley (Mansfield) who tweeted that:

"one kid lives in a crack den, another in a brothel". Another Twitter user wrote back that "£20 cash direct to a crack den and a brothel sounds like the way forward with this one",

He's since deleted his tweet but WTF , Angela Raynor was indeed right to refer to some of them as "scum".
I'm sure that his Tory voting constituents are proud of him.

I think it is interesting that he presents helping a child living in a crack den and another in a brothel as an [ialternative[/i to helping other children. Number 1, I struggle to believe he gives a poop in the first place and, secondly, it has to get that bad before he thinks, ooh ‘maybe something should be done, light up the Sercosignal’?

CT is corporation tax, yeah? That being the case, is the use of ‘I’ completely appropriate? I admit it is pedantic point and if the company or companies are wholly owned by you, then ‘the businesses I owned paid...’ would be correct and I can forgive opting for something briefer.

However, I suspect it reflects a difference in our perspectives. You perhaps see your whole company as adding to your individual contribution. As I am progressing up through the hierarchy of my organisation and needing to support others while still having to generate enough revenue to justify my wage, I see myself, moving forward, as sort of ‘stealing’ (in the nicest possible way) their immediate productivity as my role evolves and my own direct delivery declines. I hope I would always say ‘our team generated £xxx revenue’, rather than seeing it as an extension of myself.

Would you acknowledge your workers deserve to claim a share of that >£1m tax contribution? Assuming you have workers - my argument rather falls down if you are a one-man consultancy or something!

I own the business 100% so yes I is correct - the company transfers the monies but its my money.

Whilst I have a host of incredible people in the organisation it is me who put the money and took the risk and it is me who will pay if it goes under. Nobody else in that business had PGs including the roof over my family's head. Fortunately those days are long gone.

My role is to encourage and support the organisation - ensure the strategic direction is correct and that the finance is available to deliver the plan. The workers are well rewarded for the contribution to the company's profitability - I also provide them with a platform to learn and develop and and opportunity to make mistakes at my expense. Many use the skills they have learned and obtain better paid roles - they wouldn't be able to do that with the investment the company has made in them - it isn't all one way!!

I disagree. There’s no reason you should care, but I do. To be fair, if you paid yourself a bigger wage instead, then you might get poop for excessive director to pay. Wealth is such a burden.



I agree. I don’t doubt you have been the single most important person in building a successful and profitable enterprise. And I acknowledge that my own instinctive prejudices don’t stand up to even my own analysis. Our worldview is very different, but I admire you for making a success of yourself despite a humble start in life. However, you acknowledge yourself that your workers contribute to the profits your company generates - surely that level of contribution (which I know is impossible to accurately quantify) should be reflected, notionally at least, in the tax paid on those profits and the ensuing contribution to society.

I guess it is the whole ‘I provide employment for this many people’ attitude vs the ragged-trousered philanthropist mindset.

Always rely on the usual suspects for some bewildering ideals of equality. Some of us make money, many of us squander other peoples taxes.

That's capitalism - its about who is taking the risk - non of those who contribute to profits stick their hand in their pockets when the company doesn't make a profit e.g. this year the only person doing that is me. So they generate the profits but not the losses - as you say that is beard and cardigan view?

Contribution to society is paid in three ways for me - CT, Employers NI, my own personal taxes

Okay, but there’s no universally accepted way of valuing contribution or ‘keeping score‘ in a capitalist society, with which to boost our own opinions or diminish those of others. Then, even using your own measure, I think you are reaching slightly.

Obviously our experiences will influence our opinions, but I think we’re better exchanging ideas based on the traditional democracy and equality of the pub, rather than trying to one up on credentials. We’ll just end up sounding like the little lass off Johnny Briggs whose mum was a nurse. We can talk about all the amazing and brilliant stuff I’ve achieved by PM if you’re interested... but why would you be?

I agree - my company wouldn't be what it is if it wasn't for the brilliant people who have worked in it over many many years. If I hadn't risked everything initially there wouldn't be a company in the first place.

People's contribution is measured primarily by their status and their ability to manage risk - the monies are just a by-product of that ability - usually the greater the risk managed the greater the reward - ever thus.

In your world a road sweeper is as valuable as a cardiac surgeon - not in mine.

And yet, a cardiac surgeon earns rather less than a footballer or "influencer".
It is indeed a mixed up messed up world that we live in.

Also, very well paid people using tax avoidance and tax evasion to avoid paying their "share" - is this ok too.?

There are a lot of elements that are crucial to the success of any operation, commercial or surgical. If nobody had taught you to read or the basics of mathematics you would have found it much more difficult to be successful in business. If the theatre isn’t cleaned properly then the patient is at greater risk no matter how good the surgeon is. Nobody is a island, we’re all interdependent. All the roles in a healthy society are of value but nearly all of us are individually fungible.

One of the distasteful positions among Remainers is the anti-democratic ‘it was the stupid, ill-educated demographic that won the Brexit referendum’ argument (if you can even call it that). Are you saying that the views of an elite, however defined, should be given more weight than the populace as a whole?

Your point on status is interesting. You think risk management is one of the very top considerations in assessing value, likely reflecting your own experience and self-image. However, that wouldn’t apply in a lot of professional environments - to a degree that is unfair in all honesty. That’s the thing with job-snobbery, it is stupid and unfair and, most of all, it doesn’t translate. I’ve been with oncologists who referred to surgeons as ‘meat technicians’, half jokingly, but only half. When people think they form [ua[/u crucial link in the chain they are absolutely right. When people think they form [uthe[/u crucial link they are very wrong imo, and they’ll be laughed at by others who, ironically, have the same misconception about themselves.

It is legal, like keeping people alive when they serve no useful purpose, many agree or disagree with both, neither has a more or less valid point.

Tax evasion most certainly isn't legal and many of the avoidance schemes are border line too.

Funny how we have gone from

Eat out to help out

To

Starve a kid to save a Quid

It's called "levelling up", which is Tory speak for looking after those who are better off than the rest.

My experience is purely in the private sector and in that world the person who earns the most money is the person who makes the crucial decisions i.e. takes the most risk has the most responsibility. In my organisation the buck stops with me - I have delegated much of the decision-making to the directors - hate micro management - and them down to their teams but each rung has a level at which they can make decisions without referring upwards e.g. if the profile of a potential new client is outside of the agreed parameters then it goes from sales to commercial - if it falls within the agreed criteria no need to refer.

Your idea that theatre cleaner is as important as a surgeon is an interesting one - you can have the cleanest operating theatre in the world but without the surgeon no need to clean it. So who is really the most important person in that scenario?

Perhaps it is more a collaboration than a contest. What about the anaesthetist? What about the people who make the surgical instruments? Without a scalpel, the surgeon is not much use. Maybe we all need each other to be successful, and we should respect and look out for one another. Underneath the money and possessions and the titles and the labels and and petty hierarchies, there is who and what we really are.

They're called free SCHOOL meals, no?

Of course but there will always be a meritocracy - without why would anyone aspire and work towards improving their situation and status. Some people are very driven and have the combination of intellect and work ethic and these people generally make the world a better place for all us.

We come back to the point you can knock somebody out and produce as many scalpels as you you like but without the skill of the surgeon nothing happens and the patient dies. There will always be those at the top of the pyramid through their own efforts and talent - its the reason Socialism doesn't work you cannot constrain the talent, its influence and its rewards.

Quote ="Sal Paradise"Of course but there will always be a meritocracy - without why would anyone aspire and work towards improving their situation and status. Some people are very driven and have the combination of intellect and work ethic and these people generally make the world a better place for all us. We come back to the point you can knock somebody out and produce as many scalpels as you you like but without the skill of the surgeon nothing happens and the patient dies. There will always be those at the top of the pyramid through their own efforts and talent - its the reason Socialism doesn't work you cannot constrain the talent, its influence and its rewards.'" Okay, but you get that there are multiple pyramids and status is context specific? You know that the term meritocracy was coined to describe a dystopian society in a satirical essay? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_ ... eritocracy

Quote ="Sal Paradise"Of course but there will always be a meritocracy - without why would anyone aspire and work towards improving their situation and status. Some people are very driven and have the combination of intellect and work ethic and these people generally make the world a better place for all us. We come back to the point you can knock somebody out and produce as many scalpels as you you like but without the skill of the surgeon nothing happens and the patient dies. There will always be those at the top of the pyramid through their own efforts and talent - its the reason Socialism doesn't work you cannot constrain the talent, its influence and its rewards.'" Okay, but you get that there are multiple pyramids and status is context specific? You know that the term meritocracy was coined to describe a dystopian society in a satirical essay? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_ ... eritocracy

Sal can’t understand why millions of kids go hungry whilst his kids eat caviar for breakfast.

There are plenty of people on minimum wage that manage to feed their families without the need for further state help - so it is possible - would you not agree?

My kids have long flown the nest - surprisingly they don't seem to have a problem feeding themselves and their children - must have been all that Caviar that gave them a desire to work hard and correctly prioritise their finances.

What's next JD sports vouchers?

So all these working families that managed to feed their kids pre covid who have now lost their jobs or had pay cuts and now are struggling, what advice would you give them?

Let me guess

“Lols should have budgeted better you pauper, now excuse me whilst I crack open another lobster shell”

So take advantage of Universal Credit for a start - in a lot of cases they will be better off!!

and cancel Sky, stop smoking, live to your means.

not rocket science