I think there's a separate issue around populism and polemicism. Whether it is angry middle-aged men on the right, or comedians like Boyle or Lee on the left, they do a decent job of making ideas accessible. However, these are not great thinkers. Boyle is funny though.

I'd recommend reading some books by non-celebrity authors. And avoiding the red pill metaphor. It sounds like you're recruiting to a cult.

Two great books absolutely turned me off socialism, I’m sure you’ve read them yourself but 1984 and Animal Farm. If they don’t scare you away from the left and the way in which they are steering us then I don’t know what will.

They are George Orwell books, he was a democratic socialist but opposed totalitarianism. The NHS is an example of socialism in action, do you oppose that?

They are very fine books. Obviously though, not many on the left are advocating Stalinism, and I don't think resisting or trying to reverse the growth in inequality inevitably leads to it. 1984, I read more as being about totalitarianism generally, it was more of a fascistic dystopia in many ways.

The arguments put forward by Orwell in The Road to Wigan Pier are broadly of the left.

I wasn't going to reply to this as this post is not about Brexit and certainly my reply's have mostly included Brexit and therefore, would like to apologise to the original poster.
However, with respect to you and your post. I'm not sure the whole Brexit remit was about immigration, As the main slogan from the Official Leave campaign which many remain voters love reminding me of was the slogan on the Big Red Bus which was about the amount of money we sent weekly to the EU.

Certainly controlling our own borders with regards the EU and ending freedom of movement was a big part of the referendum result. I'm not sure why you say that immigration WILL increase from outside the EU as a result, the only possible reasons this would happen surely is because, people from the EU would not want to come here, then so be it, or if people from outside the EU would be better suited to what is on offer then again I say so be it.

Most of what I do post are my opinions as most of us don't actually know what will happen if we actually do leave the EU and by that fact you could be right in some of what you say. But in contrast reading your post, you do seem to know what is going to happen.

It has been already - and it will do so even more post-Brexit, because those countries that some charlatans have claimed will give us the easiest trade deals in history, will want one very important thing in return - visas.

There's an irony in that whilst Nigel successfully conflated non-EU migration with EU-migration as part of his racist campaign to get people to vote Leave - the very people who responded to that (racists) will see an influx of brown people post-Brexit; the very people they wanted rid of in the first place, but which Brexit was never going to achieve.

I can't in all honestly disagree with what you say especially with the people likely to be negotiating these trade deals, however, with regards to this, what is to say we won't give priority to EU citizens in part of some sort of trade deal negotiations, however, this would not stop what you refer to which I believe has happened in the past. but lets hope not.

I assume your second point is referring to the poster which was put out by Farage showing the long line of what looked like poor refugees and unlike EU citizens would stand little or no chance of getting into this country. Absolutely agree, disgraceful.

No, not at all but it does get taken advantage of. I see it first hand with Pakistanis coming over settling for renal dialysis, Americans with diabetes, Africans with TB, Columbians having babies etc. We shouldn’t be the worlds hospital.

Totally agree. No NI contributions no treatment.

May I ask how you see this first hand?

It's a drop in the ocean and administering getting the money back costs almost as much. It'll be even more admin after no deal and we have to charge EU citizens. Just what we need in the NHS - more admin!

This really isn’t an issue and very rare, thought to cost £110M from the £134,000M budget or 0.08% of the nhs budget.

Also remember when we are abroad in the EU we can get medical treatment to the same level as that countries nationals. 785,000 British people living in Spain, the majority of who are pensioners get healthcare in Spain for free and at no cost to the nhs or British taxpayer.

Actually,"deliberate health tourism" is thought be be around 120m to 280m. This includes British expats who return to the UK to see doctors. Even so, it is tiny in the big scheme of things.

But as we all know its just another exaggeration used to rile up the base.

You're correct it is a tiny percentage. However to me it's more the principle of it. I don't go to work and pay my taxes and NI for any Tom dick and Harry to use it. Emergencies aside of course. If I have to use a doctor on holiday in Greece I have to pay the guy before he'll even see me . I then have to claim it back on my insurance, why don't we adopt the same policy

You don’t, unless you are going to a private healthcare facility, which you would also have to pay for in the UK.
As an EU citizen you can get free medical treatment in Greece with a free EHIC card.

Your EHIC (European Health Insurance Card) gets you free treatment with any healthcare provider with a contract with the Greek National Organisation for Healthcare Services Provision (EOPYY).

You are talking paranoid rubbish. I have been on holiday in Greece when a friend who became ill. We took him to the local hospital; the treatment was excellent & free. I don't think they even asked to see his card.

It's misdirection. The reason the NHS is struggling is because of under-funding not because of hordes of foreign health tourists. Blaming foreigners plays to some people's innate prejudice and allows those really responsible to get off the hook.

You're being had.

And this is why we are where we are - when people base their opinions not on fact or reality or their own experience, but on what a Daily Mail columnist wrote, or what Nigel Farage said on Newsnight.

As has been pointed out to you in very simple detail - you're wrong; as an EU citizen, you can walk into a hospital or GP in any member state, and be treated free of charge. Those bloody Europeans - they're so unreasonable!

NO you can't.

Broken wrist in France, pay up, clIm back through insurance
Medivac in Spain, pay up, claim tnrough insurance

Stop reading The Mirror, Tne Star for your "facts"

Had to use the local doctor in nidri on lefkada last year. I had to pay even though I showed him my EU card. Must have been a private practitioner. So I'm not paranoid .. just used the wrong doctor

Don't know how to post links but Google Nigerian woman has quads on NHS . I suppose half a million quid is peanuts. We are mugs.

It’s always the same. Those with agendas to keep people from realising they’re being mugged off put out stories that are easily swallowed.

Benefits Street – “the poor are to blame”

Bendy Bananas – “the EU are to blame”

Nigerian woman gives birth – “foreigners bleeding the NHS dry it’s their fault I can’t get treatment”.


You’re being had.

Meanwhile those to blame get away with it.

And your agenda. Hating people being right?

I'm not being had. I know the NHS needs more funding,...it always will no matter how much we put in. However people who use the NHS who aren't entitled don't help. As I have said before it's not just the money it's the principle. I think they're cheeky gets.

What do you suggest we do to children born 3 months prematurely - throw them out onto the streets?