So what date do you put on diseases/conditions being discovered/understood/diagnosed and their being 'legitimate' in your view?

Aids is a fairly recent discovery in the scheme of things.....I suppose that isnt real either?

That is an excellent example. And also one that, in all probability, had been around for rather longer than it's easy to imagine given that it was only the 1980s when it was identified and named.

In the interests of being as balanced as possible, there are serious questions over some 'conditions', which may have had to be invented by the pharmaceutical industry for various reasons. A specific case, and very recent, is that of a low female sex drive. Big pharm realised it had the research to make a drug for this – so it then had to create a need. The likes of Dr Malcolm Kendrick also question when cholesterol became a disease and why, on a very similar basic.

But there's literature out there about exactly those issues. I not personally ever seen anything that disputes the very real existence of bi-polar.

Having said that, it is quite fashionable (?) to doubt some conditions (struggling to find the correct word here), particularly in terms of those that affect children and their behaviour – ADDT and similar ones. And it's only really relatively recently that people accepted that dyslexia was a genuine condition and not a put on or an excuse.

So to be fair to Toast, I don't think he's alone in perhaps assuming that something is not genuine, simply because diagnosis is new. But so much understanding, diagnosis and treatment of mental health issues is new and ongoing.

Excellent post. I have no doubt that there are many conditions which could effectively be rolled into one, or that there are conditions which are banded around to explain things such as uruly behaviour in children. I fully understand peoples scepticism of bi polar, and to be honest, until I had experienced my partners episodes I would count myself among them. One thing I would never do though, is be an arrogant, ignorant ar$e wipe about it. I could quite esily say that tourettes is a made up afflication by people who like to swear a lot, but having seen the detrimental impact it has on peoples lives, I wouldnt dare.

Toast (if not trolling) is probably fairly typical of a dumbed-down, naive and susceptible swathe of the population.

These are instant soundbite people. Whether able to do so or not, they have no interest whatsoever in acquiring knowledge or study. An informed position is as alien to them as Venus, and about as attractive.

Instead, they think they know everything, and that nobody can tell them anything, and the big change is that the various social media platforms have suddenly given even the most blithering idiot a "voice", which many feel almost obsessively compelled to use on pretty much any topic. They are irrationally but unbendingly convinced that their knee-jerk views, probably harvested from a combination of scumbag redtops, neo-fascists and populist propaganda blindly swallowed from vested interests, are both blindingly obvious, and shared (or should be) by any right-thinking person.

Instead they invariably advertise their ignorance, intolerance and insouciance. It is a nasty trait, but the sick, old, ill, disabled and anyone potentially seen as some kind of "burden" on "society" have throughout history often been made targets of mockery, abuse and worse, and still are.

In this country we have spent many years and much blood in trying to achieve a society which is better than that, but sadly the dark forces are never far away, and in the form of our present "government", it is worryingly easy to see hard-won progress suddenly being targeted savagely and without a conscience, for obscene political ends.

Why bother to spend time to do a little bit of your own research, or to consider and actually begin to understand a given topic? Surely, hearing or reading belligerent soundbites to which you're superficially attracted is enough? Reasoned discussion? Why, when you can just text "MORON" to some voteline number (texts cost £1 plus your normal network charge) and move on to castigate the next category of wasters?

Quote ="Mintball"That is an excellent example. And also one that, in all probability, had been around for rather longer than it's easy to imagine given that it was only the 1980s when it was identified and named. In the interests of being as balanced as possible, there are serious questions over some 'conditions', which may have had to be invented by the pharmaceutical industry for various reasons. A specific case, and very recent, is that of a low female sex drive. Big pharm realised it had the research to make a drug for this – so it then had to create a need. The likes of Dr Malcolm Kendrick also question when cholesterol became a disease and why, on a very similar basic. But there's literature out there about exactly those issues. I not personally ever seen anything that disputes the very real existence of bi-polar. Having said that, it is quite fashionable (?) to doubt some conditions (struggling to find the correct word here), particularly in terms of those that affect children and their behaviour – ADDT and similar ones. And it's only really relatively recently that people accepted that dyslexia was a genuine condition and not a put on or an excuse. So to be fair to Toast, I don't think he's alone in perhaps assuming that something is not genuine, simply because diagnosis is new. But so much understanding, diagnosis and treatment of mental health issues is new and ongoing.'" One problem may be the definition of, or perhaps understanding of what is meant by, terms like "condition", "illness" etc. As research in medical and psychological matters has increased exponentially, there are a whole host of "illnesses" the name of which is actually just a convenient label to describe a symptom, or, increasingly, a particular suite of symptoms, and not a name for a specific virus or infection. But that's a distinction very many don't understand. For example, tonsillitis. It just means that, physically, your tonsils are inflamed. But that's the symptom, not the cause. Which could be a virus; or it could be a bacterium. Ditto meningitis. And that's illnesses which do manifest a physical, objectively viewable, effect on body tissues. In the case of psychiatric illness, there is no such physical manifestation and so the psychiatrically ill are easy meat for the cynic who says they must just be "putting it on" or else should "pull themselves together". (As , indeed, are sufferers of conditions like ME, or fibromyalgia). But anyway, "bipolar" isn't a disease or illness that you can catch. It's a label, or a description, to the polarised mood swings that someone with the condition experiences. And so, vulnerable to doubters like toast. The sad thing is that (as this thread confirms) if toast ever finds himself living with someone he knows well who develops bipolar, then he/she will very rapidly see for him/herself that this is something very real. At the very least, maybe toast would like to digest the NHS pages about it, to be found here: www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Bipolar-di ... ction.aspx But maybe toast is a lost cause. Why else, after reading the heartfelt comments of people with first-hand experience, would he/she dismiss those without comment and still keep blathering on about dates? Does toast think these posters are liars?

Quote ="Mintball"That is an excellent example. And also one that, in all probability, had been around for rather longer than it's easy to imagine given that it was only the 1980s when it was identified and named. In the interests of being as balanced as possible, there are serious questions over some 'conditions', which may have had to be invented by the pharmaceutical industry for various reasons. A specific case, and very recent, is that of a low female sex drive. Big pharm realised it had the research to make a drug for this – so it then had to create a need. The likes of Dr Malcolm Kendrick also question when cholesterol became a disease and why, on a very similar basic. But there's literature out there about exactly those issues. I not personally ever seen anything that disputes the very real existence of bi-polar. Having said that, it is quite fashionable (?) to doubt some conditions (struggling to find the correct word here), particularly in terms of those that affect children and their behaviour – ADDT and similar ones. And it's only really relatively recently that people accepted that dyslexia was a genuine condition and not a put on or an excuse. So to be fair to Toast, I don't think he's alone in perhaps assuming that something is not genuine, simply because diagnosis is new. But so much understanding, diagnosis and treatment of mental health issues is new and ongoing.'" One problem may be the definition of, or perhaps understanding of what is meant by, terms like "condition", "illness" etc. As research in medical and psychological matters has increased exponentially, there are a whole host of "illnesses" the name of which is actually just a convenient label to describe a symptom, or, increasingly, a particular suite of symptoms, and not a name for a specific virus or infection. But that's a distinction very many don't understand. For example, tonsillitis. It just means that, physically, your tonsils are inflamed. But that's the symptom, not the cause. Which could be a virus; or it could be a bacterium. Ditto meningitis. And that's illnesses which do manifest a physical, objectively viewable, effect on body tissues. In the case of psychiatric illness, there is no such physical manifestation and so the psychiatrically ill are easy meat for the cynic who says they must just be "putting it on" or else should "pull themselves together". (As , indeed, are sufferers of conditions like ME, or fibromyalgia). But anyway, "bipolar" isn't a disease or illness that you can catch. It's a label, or a description, to the polarised mood swings that someone with the condition experiences. And so, vulnerable to doubters like toast. The sad thing is that (as this thread confirms) if toast ever finds himself living with someone he knows well who develops bipolar, then he/she will very rapidly see for him/herself that this is something very real. At the very least, maybe toast would like to digest the NHS pages about it, to be found here: www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Bipolar-di ... ction.aspx But maybe toast is a lost cause. Why else, after reading the heartfelt comments of people with first-hand experience, would he/she dismiss those without comment and still keep blathering on about dates? Does toast think these posters are liars?

Nope, he thinks they are shirkers.

We are all being encouraged by those in authority to believe that anyone who doesn't conform to a prescribed standard pattern of behavior is a shirker, being unemployed, being disabled, being young, being old, having more than two children, needing medical attention, needing your bins emptying more than once a month, needing a house - its a pandemic of shirking behavior and needs to be stamped on immediately.

According to the newspapers anyway.

That makes total sense. I found myself struggling, in the post you quoted, to actually use the correct word – simply because it's not an area I'm closely familiar with, but realise from a language perspective that – absolutely as you say – those are not all synonyms.

I suppose also, if anything, medicine, our knowledge and understanding of health etc etc get more complex as time – and research – progresses. And if things are not represented responsibly in the mass media, then it's easier to see why people react the way they do.

As mentioned, there's loads of information out there – more than ever, on everything – but most people are not used to accessing and searching for info. And I don't think it can be stressed too much that many, many people accept what they read in the limited places they do read. And if it's in newspapers, they tend to believe it to be essentially trustworthy.

I guarantee Toast reads the Daily mail!

Nope daily mirror and the racing post

Nope daily mirror and the racing post

Near enough. I calmed down a bit now. I have no animosity towards you, I just dont understand your attitude to a diagnosed condition that affects many many people. Maybe you can have a word with my partner, tell her she needs to stop feeling sorry for herself. Its actually opinions like yours that stopped her from seeking help for many many years. She thought she just had to pull herself together and get on with it. You touched a nerve!

Toast did send me a pm that said he wasn't trolling at all and is sick of all the PC bu..ting and the self pitiers which I thought was awful of him but that's life I suppose.

care to forward that on?

Do I think that some people wrongly cite bi polar or glandular problems when they are just badly behaving tvvats or lazy over eaters?

Yes.

Do I think that these conditions don't exist because of these wrong claims? No, for that I've have to be a ****ing retard like Toast. (And that's not to say I think he has a real brain impediment, I just think he's a stupid prick.)

A private message is still a private message. Even if it was sent by an obnoxious prick.

Point taken.

It doesn't happen often, but LGJM is correct.

When was Penicillin discovered as what the blue hell has that got to do with it being real?

Congrats, I didn't think I'd find anyone more stupid than Rick Perry...

Dick

I think I now understand the reason for Katie Hopkins existence

hey Horatio, you forgot to put your glasses on


*Won't get fooled again plays*

An obnoxious prick who just deliberately came on here and tried to upset someone for fun.