You are the one who felt that because you had gender neutral parenting there must be something else at play for them to develop into traditional gender roles i was pointing out that i do not believe that you can be gender neutral in a gender orientated society as there are too many things you cannot control all you can do is mitigate against the worst elements of it which is what you appear to have done by your comment that you do not have barbie and a macho man.



I was pointing out that gender development effectively starts from day one when a child is born. Regardless of your parenting others will respond to them on the basis of their perceptions of gender.

If you called your children by names which identified there sex then people automatically respond to them in different ways.

If your girl was called Jill people say isnt she pretty if your son is called jack people say he looks like his dad. All of that is contributing to the development of gender roles. People talk to children differently depending on their sex which begins to inform their gender awareness as i gave an example in a previous post.

Did your son see you shaving your face and maybe notice his mummy didnt all of this affects awareness of sexual and physical differences and creates within a child that because they have a certain sex then they should behave in a certain way.

Obviously the less things that influence that will manage it as they are younger BUT as soon as they start interacting with wider society then those gender roles start devloping.

You say

at what age do you think other things start influencing them. At what stage do you think others start influencing them more. My son was brought up to be a Man United fan, his mum supports them his grandad who he dotes on is a mad Man U fan. I would probably name them as my favoured team. He had man U teddies, wallpaper and quilt cover. He watched Man u games with his mum and grandad. He went to Old Trafford.

Yet when he was 6 his best friend at school persuaded him to support Liverpool in a matter of two weeks. 12 years later he is still a Liverpool fan.

I stick by my point unless you live on a desert island it would be virtually be impossible to protect your children from copying or being aware of gender roles.
.

Do you perceive it as detrimental?

That's a different a matter, and based on what society at any one time dreams okay etc. but that has change
D and continues to do so.

Best left sidestep since Brad Fitler

No, why do you?

It's fifty year old bloke having what sounds like a top day and more than likely a rather smashing night out.

Yes, it's like a group of people campaigning against people percieving them as lager louts and once a year going to Magaluf on a P155 up to celebrate

I'm quite happy to be labeled a man for that is what I am.

I knacked the quote, apologies.

Pride really isn't a campaign, it's merely people celebrating who they are.

Always a laugh on "[iThe Sin Bin[/i" This thread is as good as any.

How is a hermaphrodite placed in the equation?

Is there even an equation?

Makes for a colourful and diverse world.

I've always assumed that 'camp' and 'butch' to be no different to 'feminine' or 'masculine' - just aspects of a personality. I know a couple of blokes who are as camp as they come, both of whom are straight as straight could be. One of them regularly uses it to bed some very attractive women....
The scooter scene is also very full of 'masculine' women, but they all seem to be married/living with bloke (who generally also rides a scooter).

I've lost track of the point I was trying to make now.



Anyway, when do we start on fetishes Minty?

Agreed. I was going to write something similar earlier. It is most emphatically not all about gender expectations. The differences between (most) boys and (most) girls is absolutely huge an inborn.

I thought the most interesting question that arose on here recently, (by accident) was the simple question: are people born gay?

Sub-question: to what extent is homosexuality a genetic thing?

It seems fair forum game, too, as googling around I see that despite myriad efforts nobody has either pinned down or disproved a "homosexuality gene". Maybe the smart money is on epigenetics.

Anyway, if the proposition is, you can't ehlp the sexual attraction that you're born with (however that happens), I was going quite well in defeating a mate in an argument about this until he came back with "OK then, if there is some sort of genetic thing, and you can't help it or choose it, how come so many are attracted to sex with animals? What gene is that and what point does it have?"

I'm still scratching my head.

Not been the case anywhere I've ever lived. Maybe it's a Yorkshire thing?

I'd guess it's more of a desperation thing.... "Any hole's a goal" taken to its logical conclusion.

See also prison, Royal Navy etc.

Edited

[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20523950Ever been to Germany?[/url

www.ssrichardmontgomery.com/down ... irdsex.htm Takes all sorts as they say.

www.ssrichardmontgomery.com/down ... irdsex.htm Takes all sorts as they say.

I daren't even begin the tale of the rather strange magician act that they had on at Huddersfield Uni Students Union one Saturday night in the 1970s, I'm still not convinced that my memory is correct whether through drink or accidental drug inhalation but it involved the naked magician and his naked (not very glamorous) assistant, a chicken, a cockerel, several doves, an eagle owl and a very large tumescent Great Dane dog.

By far the wierdest thing I have witnessed in the name of entertainment.

Is everyone in agreement that it is not normal practice to wear your jumper back-to-front ?
If , however , some people choose to wear their jumpers in such a manner then they should be allowed to do so .


Wear your jumper however you like . Just don't keep battering on about how you want to be treated equal to people that wear their jumpers the right way round . Jumpers are designed to be worn one way , and one way only . If you wear it any other way then you are wearing it wrong .

That is all .

I suppose you think you're being very droll.

Total bull[is[/ihit, dressed up as homophobic-lite

Oh dear, oh dear.

Are we allowed a thread on fetishes ?