You clearly have no knowledge of what Hamas is prepared to offer (such as recognition of the state of Israel, peace along the lines of the UN proposal which has been on the table for decades).

Ask yourself the question, if Hamas is the problem - why was no peace negotiated in the three years BEFORE Hamas assumed power?

There is a consistent line of Israeli action here - whoever is in power, choose only to recognise the party which is OUT of power. It's called "Divide and Conquer" and it's been a useful political tool since Julius Caesar perfected it.

You do understand the difference between wiping the STATE of Israel off the face of the earth (in favour of a TWO-STATE solution) and wiping every ISRAELI off the face of the earth?

Your naivety is charming, although somewhat surprising given how often you accuse others of it.


I didn't say that Hamas were the problem. That's just your usual knee-jerk response of assuming that anyone who doesn't agree 100% with your POV must automatically have the diametrically opposite POV. Hamas is certainly [ipart[/i of the problem, as is Israel. Two sets of murderous thugs cheerfully attempting to exterminate each other. Lovely.

Israel could easily have control of those areas. But they don’t.

The Palestinians also have a multitude of choices, not just the false dichotomy you have proposed.

And the scary thing is that you probably actually believe that.

I'm wondering why you choose NOT to believe it whilst - I assume - you believe Israel is committed to peace.

I'm at a complete loss to explain how you EQUATE the suffering of both. Do you know the comparative death tolls since the Palestinians were kicked off their land by a colonial power?

Please explain how you do it. Seriously, I'm interested.

And there you go again with the assumptions. You could try actually reading what people post instead. For instance the bit where I describe both sides as murderous and bent on each other's annihilation?

Sweeping the state of Israel from the face of the planet very clearly does not refer to negotiation of a two-state solution. Anyone who honestly thinks that it does is wearing the rosiest of rose-tinted glasses.

Yes, they could. But, oddly enough, Israel is conscious of world opinion and the damage it could suffer if it were to exterminate the entire Palestinian population. Which is why they are very careful over when to launch their attacks (such as immediately after the US elections).



Explain.

Because just after the US elections means obama would be less critical? Surely the time to do it would have been a week or two beforehand?
fight or die arent the only options, just as they arent for israel

And you clearly didn't watch the Youtube clip. Watch it and respond. Please.



If Hamas have made the offer why hasn't Israel called its bluff? After all, if Hamas went back on its word it would clearly make the Israeli cause that much stronger.

The fact that Israel picks its time to launch attacks in order to minimise overseas condemnation is beyond question. Even Haaretz (one of Israeli's leading newspapers - available in English) admits such.



Explain.

Really? Israel tries to present itself in the best light it can? I am surprised…..

There are other choices, Fight and die isn’t the only choice. There other options, The options you have presented aren’t the only ones, there are a multitude of others

Seriously, I [url=http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=norman%20finkelstein%20the%20history%20of&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&ved=0CCkQtwIwAg&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DsgiGyITn6Qc&ei=YmumUOusBYjC0QXyjIDwDA&usg=AFQjCNHj1U6MG1URsPkjMNlxF-whkDNYVADEFY[/url people to hold the same opinion about Israel after watching arguably the best summation of the Israel-Palestine conflict (made by someone outside the region).

This.
Israel knows very well that the more it squeezes Gaza, the greater the chances of retaliation from Hamas and the louder the voice of the more extreme elements within Gaza.

If the Welsh came back to Yorkshire where they lived thousands of years ago, claiming that it is unoccupied and belongs to them ... then divided it up with this New Wales separating the (now much smaller) East Riding from the (now much smaller) West Riding and then pushed me into Todmorden, meanwhile they build "settlements" all over the East Riding and a fkkin great wall to prevent the indigeneous East Riding Tykes from going to Leeds unless they have a permit from the Welsh.
You know what, I'd be a bit miffed and might just retaliate.
Then the Welsh would come over all affronted and demand the right to defend their civilians and invade the bit I live in, laying waste to a lot of it and sealing all the borders of it so that we can't export or import or trade or travel except through tunnels to Lancashire, starving us back into a subsistence age.

Would I fight back?
I think I might.

Yep, you keep saying this without qualifying in any way.

You're damned right.

What qualification could that statement possibly need?

I don't need to watch the clip as I watched the massacre unfold live on TV and am perfectly capable of recognising evil when I see it. What separates Hamas from the Israeli government is opportunity and capability, not intent.


Because they don't want to and don't need to. As long as they have the support of the USA they are untouchable and they know it. Why make concessions?

Neither Hamas nor the leadership of Israel is truly interested in a negotiated solution. They hate each other with a passion that is quite literally holy.

You know what everyone's opinion of Israel is? Impressive omniscience.

That only works as a plan, after terrorists launch attacks.

If there are no attacks, the plan doesn’t work.

if you keep hitting a bully and he keeps hitting you back, only harder. it may be time to change your approach.

still, watch this palestinians lazarus like recovery.

[urlhttp://order-order.com/2012/11/15/bbc-news-runs-fake-palestinian-casualty-spin-footage/[/url

Interesting following the [url=https://twitter.com/IDFSpokespersonIDF Spokesperson[/url and the [url=https://twitter.com/AlqassamBrigadeAl Qassam Brigades[/url on Twitter trying to out-fact and out-propaganda one another.

And for a little dark satire, the [url=https://twitter.com/HamasGlobalPRHamas Global PR[/url feed is worth a chuckle.

Hamas came to power because they were seen to offer an alternative to the mainstream PLO who supported a Two state Solution.

When you do not compromise, when you continue your unjust policies and when you continue to discriminate against a group of people and leave them with no alternative but to fight for their rights then you often force them down a more extremist route.

Israel will sow what it reaps. It may be able to inflict more pain on the Palestinians than vice versa but that will not always be the case.


At the end of the day it comes down to whose side you are on.

Me i am clear VICTORY TO THE PALESTINIANS

Not sure why everyone gets worked up about this issue. There a lots of other conflicts around the world that have more chance of resolution. The only way this one will resolve itself is if the state of Israel ceases to exist. I believe that will be the case in future unless there is global armageddon beforehand. Either way the result will eventually be no Jewish state in that location.