So, according to Standee & sanjunien:

If you're poor and socialist, you're jealous

If you're rich and socialist, you're a hypocrite

when Ted Heath

took us in the EEC in the early 70s (remember, WE voted for it democratically) Mr Kinnock was seen in the same light as Red Ken, Scargill, Red Robbo, Peter Shore and the like = extreme euro sceptics

Kinnock realised that it would be economic suicide to pull out of europe and so had to jump on the bandwagon, upsetting many of his contempories within the loony left/labour Party at the time - he had no choice but to accept the ERM in 1990 many years after his anti european stance

and correct, the Tores had lost their credibilty especially when senior Tories like the C of the Ex, Norman Lamont wasn't in favour...the crash was inevitable and it cost me a fookin' fortune !

not at all, Prescott is a hypocrite because he is guilty of crass hypocrisy.

How?

we are all capable of hypocrisy no matter what or who we are - it's human nature

we all have the seven deadly sins within us and can display them at any time, I can manage them all in the same day sometimes...

i'm not rich and socialist (ish) but very envious of anyone who has something better than me - I can't help it, it's in my nature and just like everyone else if they were honest enough to admit it

He said he would never take a seat in the Upper House, and then did! (popular belief is that he did so because he'd cheated on Pauline and it was his way of apologising to her)

Because of what happened to the pound when it was in the ERM, I think you mean.
i.e. Lamont sat in his office without even a TV to watch the currency markets and, as runners kep coming in to tell how much further the pound had fallen, kept throwing money at it, impotently waiting and waiting for instructions from the equally vacuous Major who didn't even contact him.
Then Lamont had the brass neck to say he'd never actually been keen on the ERM anyway ... didn't stop him from taking the job did it?

Yeah ... I think Blair had a point about Tory economic credibility after that, actually.


Your memory of it differs from mine.
In my recollection, Heath took us into the EEC without a referendum, and it was [uWilson[/u held a referendum on whether we stayed in.

no, the same thing - Ted took us in and we, the electorate agreed to stay in - vindicating Teds decision in the first place

Lamont took the job just as anyone wanting to get to the top in politics would have done - hence his agreement to toe the party line

Not something I was aware of, hardly the end of the world though is it?

I think it's more that he decried the very idea of an unelected upper chamber throughout his commons career, before jumping at the chance to get his snout in the trough at the earliest opportunity. So he's not only fat, boorish and generally unpleasant, he's also a hypocrite. I don't like John Prescott.

Must be a Hull thing, there are lots worse.

Hmmm. As bad, maybe.

no, there aren't, he is an objectionable waste of flesh and bone.

maybe, but we're not talking about anyone else so that is irrelevant

Lord Prescott is a hypocritical,wife cheating,fat, greedy (two jags etc) ex MN seaman who should remember and respect his roots...

he wasn't really even a proper sailor was he, wasn't he a steward?

nah, not a real merchant seaman just a bar steward....

As opposed to a jolly Jack Tar, complete with bell-bottoms and whistling a hornpipe?

WTF is a "proper sailor"?

The ones willing to take their turn in the barrel.

Gone !!!

The navy is really bolloxed now, they've got a bird in charge of a big ship

When I met the Taffy tw@ I asked him if he used to work for Cunard, He said "Now listen 'ere son, I still work f'kin 'ard"

nah Coddy, that's only those poofs in the RN who ponce around Pompey dockyard !

a real sailor (like wot I woz) was a merchant seaman risking his his health with every whore he went through in whichever port in the world...

I think you're re-writing history here....Kinnock was leader of the Opposition at the time Margaret Thatcher was PM. He was calling for us to join the ERM while Maggie was insistent on us staying out. Kinnock wasn't jumping on the bandwagon he took the Labour party in a different direction from the way it had been before (under Foot they wanted withdrawal from the EEC) and in a different direction from where the Tories were (or where Thatcher was, not necessarily all her party).

Ultimately we went in because Lawson, Howe and Major all wanted us in, and after Lawson and Howe had quit and she had Major as Chancellor, she couldn't afford to fall out with another Chancellor at such a dicey time for her in the poll tax era.

I don't support the idea of any kind of European currency regime, ERM or Euro, however in fairness to the Tories on this one, they were damned if they did and damned if they didn't, in terms of 'credibility'. They had made the decision to go into the ERM and had made a firm commitment in the election of May 1992 that the UK's economic policy would be run from within the ERM. That is a signal to businesses that the UK will be an ERM member.

When four months later, the pound comes under pressure - do they decide to quit the ERM at the first sign of trouble? With hindsight that would have saved us a lot of money that day, because we blew billions on ill fated interventions, but if we had quit early on in the day what would that have said about the UK government's 'credibility' for any future statements on its economic policy.

Once they made the decision that the UK would be in the ERM (the wrong one, IMO, as Mrs Thatcher warned), they had to pull out all the stops to try and keep us in when we came under pressure.

not a case of re writing history

Mr Kinnock was a staunch euro sceptic in his early days - he moderated somewhat when he saw the direction the party was heading

He took the party that way not the other way around.