Because you argued free market principles could be applied. I argued they couldnt. I also said that your 'freer' market was a myth. I gave examples of where free market principles in a regulated market failed. I didnt at any stage say you wanted an entirely free market, simply that you couldnt have a market which was both free and regulated.


no you wont, i made an unequivical statement, i made it numerous times, you didnt like it so you changed it.

The irony in here is pretty funny. I haven’t misrepresented anything you said. I haven’t evaded any question, I simply didn’t indulge in your misrepresentation of what I said. I was steadfastly consistent in what I said. I just didn’t say what you wanted me to. That is your problem and why you are trying to paint yourself as hard done by.

I in no way misrepresented what you said, nor changed what I said. The fact that Starbug is playing silly buggers and pretending to not know that St Helens and Salford are in new stadiums, that HKR have gone through a huge stadium refurbishment, and even Wakefield have spent hundreds of thousands improving their stadium isn’t relevant of anything.

I also dont need to remember anything anyone said in this thread, fortunately enough it stays there and can be read again, for instance we could trace the entire communication











that is our conversation up to the point you decided i was indulging in forum wars. Perhaps you would like to point out which question (besides your aforementioned attempted misrepresentation of what i said) i avoided or where i misrepresented your statements or views?

This is quite possibly the most enthralling pi55ing contest in the history of the written word. One pedantic nitpick, if I am honest I am not sure it is 100% relevant to the Duggan verdict but you lads crack on.

I think Smokey has broken his own record there.

It's all Damo's fault.

Is. It. Over. Yet?

You mean



Err



I think



It could be



Yes

m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25358064 I presume that the taxi is the silver vehicle in middle near the kerb hemmed in by a dark car to the rear, onother to the side and a silver one to the front that has mounted the kerb. Duggan's body can be seen covered by a red sheet. The taxi driver said that he heard firing from the front which would suggest that Duggan was shot by someone from the silver car. With the door in the way as Duggan decamped would he have had a shot and it looked like he was heading off to the left, wouldn't he be shot in the back more likely than the chest? I'm not so sure how the taxi driver would know where the shots came from anyway, but that what he said. Can anyone enlighten me to the events? Was he shot by someone from the rear car?

m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25358064 I presume that the taxi is the silver vehicle in middle near the kerb hemmed in by a dark car to the rear, onother to the side and a silver one to the front that has mounted the kerb. Duggan's body can be seen covered by a red sheet. The taxi driver said that he heard firing from the front which would suggest that Duggan was shot by someone from the silver car. With the door in the way as Duggan decamped would he have had a shot and it looked like he was heading off to the left, wouldn't he be shot in the back more likely than the chest? I'm not so sure how the taxi driver would know where the shots came from anyway, but that what he said. Can anyone enlighten me to the events? Was he shot by someone from the rear car?

Phew!

Also, what exactly happens to the evidence presented, I mean can it all be viewed.
Or is that a no no?

The taxi was a Toyota Previa. It's the big "soccer mom" type minivan. Duggan was in the back. The Previa has sliding rear doors.

I presume that Duggan started legging it to the rear of the taxi and was almost instantly met with an armed officer from the rear car.

There was a report of him texting his brother minutes before he was killed that there was a green BMW police van who were going to pull him.

I'd imagine that if the cop from the front car had shot Duggan the taxi driver would have seen it.

I hope that the taxi driver put a claim in for his lost taxi fare.

Looking at this scene, it looks like Duggan ran headlong into an officer and severely minimised his chances of survival.
I'm surprised he didn't vault the fence and try to leg it over the field.

I think the taxi driver must have meant that there were shots from the front Of Duggan, which would have been consistent.

He was getting Bonnie & Clyde-ed whatever course of action he was choosing.

I think the first thing he needed to do when he started legging it from the car was getting rid of the gun. If he gets rid of the gun and is then tackled straight after then he can loudly should police brutality and racism and hope that none of the cops see him throw the gun over the wall.

He was about 10ft away from the end of the wall when he was shot. After that there was the clear field and pathways. I think the clear run to the field is a better target to run to that looking to vault the railings, especially as think both Duggan and the cops will have been getting out of their vehicles before they had even stopped.

In terms of some of what has been discussed, this is interesting.

[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-25759909The Chief Constable of Greater Manchester Police is to be prosecuted for safety breaches after an unarmed man was shot dead in Cheshire.[/url

Quote ="Stand-Offish"Also, what exactly happens to the evidence presented, I mean can it all be viewed. Or is that a no no?'" Only just looked for this, so don't know how useful... dugganinquest.independent.gov.uk/

Quote ="Stand-Offish"Also, what exactly happens to the evidence presented, I mean can it all be viewed. Or is that a no no?'" Only just looked for this, so don't know how useful... dugganinquest.independent.gov.uk/

Did he not lob the gun as soon as he got out of the taxi?
His arms going up and down as he ran wouldn't have helped his cause.
So I can see why he got shot.

Quote ="Lord God Jose Mourinho"Only just looked for this, so don't know how useful... dugganinquest.independent.gov.uk/'" Yes thanks LGJM I had seen that and had looked through it. I can't remember seeing anything to the effect of where people were standing or crouching at the exact time of the shootings. If Duggan was shot by V53 exiting from the rear car, then where was the officer standing who got the shot in his radio by the bullet that passed through Duggan's bicep. If from the silver car, then this would nicely tie in.

Quote ="Lord God Jose Mourinho"Only just looked for this, so don't know how useful... dugganinquest.independent.gov.uk/'" Yes thanks LGJM I had seen that and had looked through it. I can't remember seeing anything to the effect of where people were standing or crouching at the exact time of the shootings. If Duggan was shot by V53 exiting from the rear car, then where was the officer standing who got the shot in his radio by the bullet that passed through Duggan's bicep. If from the silver car, then this would nicely tie in.

Quote ="Stand-Offish"Yes thanks LGJM I had seen that and had looked through it. I can't remember seeing anything to the effect of where people were standing or crouching at the exact time of the shootings. If Duggan was shot by V53 exiting from the rear car, then where was the officer standing who got the shot in his radio by the bullet that passed through Duggan's bicep. If from the silver car, then this would nicely tie in.'" This shows where the casings and radio were. dugganinquest.independent.gov.uk ... e_pg12.pdf

Quote ="Stand-Offish"Yes thanks LGJM I had seen that and had looked through it. I can't remember seeing anything to the effect of where people were standing or crouching at the exact time of the shootings. If Duggan was shot by V53 exiting from the rear car, then where was the officer standing who got the shot in his radio by the bullet that passed through Duggan's bicep. If from the silver car, then this would nicely tie in.'" This shows where the casings and radio were. dugganinquest.independent.gov.uk ... e_pg12.pdf

From what I've read I don't think anyone really knows how the gun got there.

I don't think it makes any sense for Duggan to throw the gun straight from the car. I think the gun being thrown would be easy to spot, then if the police catching him they'll have the gun and him and he's off to jail.

I think a doctor testified that Duggan couldn't have thrown it after he'd been shot. I know he's a doc and I'm a nobody with no experience in this field whatsoever, but I'd question how he can determine whether someone who has been shot can or can't throw something they desperately wouldn't want to get caught holding.

For the there's the possibility of him being knocked back with the impact of the bullet and releasing it.

But for me the most realistic option is for Duggan to start running as quick as possible while tossing the gun as quickly and discretely as possible.

The best case scenario for the cop would have been the gun still in his possession. The worst case would have been no gun recovered at all. Even if that were the case though, I still feel the officer is justified in shooting if Duggan is starting to do a runner and looks like he's going for a gun.

One piece of information I do want to find is where Duggan's phone was discovered. A witness was quoted as saying she say Duggan with his phone in his hand. If Duggan is right handed and his phone was near his right hand, that would be eyebrow raising for me.

2 police officers get off in america for beating a homeless man to death

Regards

King James

The jury found that the two Fullerton police officers, Manuel Ramos and Jay Cicinelli, had acted in line with their training and their professional right to use force when they beat Kelly Thomas, a homeless man diagnosed as a schizophrenic, during a police altercation on a summer night in 2011.

Only in america. The before and after photos of the poor man they beat to death are shocking.

Regards

King james

The world would definitely be a better place if they just did away with the court process and just allowed twitter or American Idol type phone voting, wouldn't it?

Seems like a sensible decision to test the robustness of the police reaction to incidents and their procedures for using weapons, its also correct that the officer who did the shooting has not been prosecuted because he acted in line with national guidelines but mainly in line with his briefing - if you tell an armed officer that they will be facing a person is is armed or is known to carry firearms then you are putting him on high alert and the safety of everyone, police and bystanders is in his hands, if he fails to act then its his job at risk.

I think that's on page 45 of the police training manual.

Agreed.