preferred Bejams personally....

why thank you sir

if anyone comes to france and finds gainful employment then fair enough though the average french employer will consider a french candidate before anyone else - what annoys people like me is the person or family who just turns up on the doorstep of the Secu (Social Services) and demands to be housed fed & watered because they are a member of a EU state and that includes loads of uk citizens

if that's a contradiction,then so be it mon ami.

no problem with the ones who come to work though work is scarce,at least they are net contributors to the system rather than parasites who come just to escape the terible conditions in their homelands

So let's get this right: someone "just" escaping "terible (sic) conditions", possibly with their family, is a "parasite".

interesting article which is being ather kind as the majority of french people are inherently racist or maybe just inherently nationalist - I can't think of many french people I know who actually tolerates any person with a dark skin - the article is being overly positive IMO

Of course you are not entitled to anything back just because you have paid your rates except the normal services like sewerage (unless you have a septic tank obviously) or regular refuse collection etc probably just like in the uk.If you have worked and paid taxes in france you will be entitled to a french pension - when depends on your date of birth but it now starts at 61 and you would receive notification from the CRAMCO (Pensions Office) about four years before your entitlements start.Contact your local office in the department and they will give you a breakdown of future entitlements.They are usually very helpful.I will help you if I can with the contact addresses etc

bearing in mind there are now about half a million GB families with properties in France either living full time or mostly as holiday homes quoting a figure of tens of thousands of people who are cheating the system is small which means that the vast majority are ok.They have brought employment to thousands of local artisans and in many cases kept communities going by buying properties in run down areas.The problem is the minority are giving the majority an increasingly bad name - that is to say like the kind of person who is claiming child benefit or invalidity benefit in both countries.Just one example but it's costing the UK & France a fortune each year.

strange that France is still the most visited tourist destination in the world .....

I didn't think that unemployed uk citizens with no reseidency in France could claim anything in france?

May I draw your attention to the first quote above, where you clearly state that immigration is affecting job seekers in France, and that you would vote for the candidate who seeks to minimise this. You then go on to state that anyone who comes to France to work is ok by you. [iThat's[/i the contradiction.

And, indeed, you have further contradicted yourself by stating that most French employers will favour French candidates over others. If that is the case, how can these immigrants possibly be affecting French job seekers?

is it being clever to pick up on my spelling mistakes ? hope it makes you feel superior to a french peasant ?

yeh sorry,yes - sponging off another countries system does make them a parasite especially when they make no effort to help themselves IMO

I am delighted to know that you would stay - and keep your family with you - in dreadful conditions if you could not guarantee walking into a job elsewhere.

It's good to know that the milk of human kindness is not a thing of the past and has not been curdled by sensationalistic media coverage.

After all, nobody would leave the sort of "terrible conditions" with any intent other than to 'sponge' for ever, would they?

And "no effort to help themselves": what does this mean? They should set up an IT company back in those "terrible conditions" that they were enough of a "parasite" to want to leave? Or they only arrive in a new country with no intention of working but of 'sponging'?

In which case, I look forward to your evidence that all those who arrive in any country, escaping what you yourself have described here as "terrible conditions", and who require help initially, do so with the intent of 'sponging' for the long term and not working when they can find work.

If I lived in 'dreadful conditions' I would do my utmost to try to improve the quality of life for me and my family and if I was desperate I would try to sponge off anyone to survive so i'm a hypocrite as well as anything else you may wish to call me.It's a case of survival and people are capapble of desperate things when faced with a desperate situation.I thank God i'm not and never have been ,in that situation.
However,I don't think I would uproot my family unless there was the smallest chance I was guaranteed work elsewhere,either in a different part of the country or in another country.

If that person had any business acumen (forming an IT company ?) then they would surely not be in the position of the kind of people we are discussing ? They would be in gainful employment in their own country or wherever they wish to work.Schenghen allows this for EU citizens I believe.

If you are talking about UK citizens coming to France then many - by many,I would say thousands over the years have tried to sponge off the french system - some are still here getting away with it but others haven't been able to beat the system or have been caught ,and punished with a fine or imprisonment or deportation back to the UK.Thousand have had to return to the UK when they realise that they cannot realise their french dream.Sad but true,usually the sign of bad planning, bad luck or just plain naiivity through watching all those ridiculous property programmes on the telly.
The same goes for people from other member states who are trying or have tried the same antics with the french system.
As I said in an aerlier posting,the average french person which includes french employers looking for unskilled or semi skilled workers are inherently rascist or xenophobic and will 95% of the time chose a french candidate for a job rather than an immigrant from another member state.That's a fact and a sad endightmment on french society,but true.The policy seems to be 'the french come first and the rest after'.The remaining 5% of employers get the immigrants by working 'on the black' - ie cheap labour;which of course doesn't exist in the UK ? IN fact obviously the influx of hundreds of thousands of EU immigrants to he UK has had no great effect on the economy ? Sounds like paradise...

How do you want me to provide 'proof' exactly ? what do you suggest I do ?

fortunately the majority of employers do take on french jobseekers before others - not a contradiction,just a fact - the 5% or so of employers who don't abide by the rules are heavily punished - the penalties for employing 'black labour' (not in the racist sense) are crippling and usually ends up with a heavy fine and imprisonment. Recent changes to the unemployment laws have made it a little easier on employers to take on staff without the heavy charges of past years.
There are more incentives for people now to become self-employed using similar schemes as the uk has had for decades.This has helped reduce the amount of illegal working practices.

Jesus. How hard can it be? The contradiction is that you said immigrants were affecting French jobseekers, then, a post or two later, you said that most French employers favour French applicants.

If it's a 'fact' that most French employers favour French applicants, it can't also be true that immigrants are adversely affecting French jobseekers.

I haven't called you anything.



So, once again: where is your evidence that a majority of those who you condemn do not come to France in exactly that hope?



Can you imagine setting up a business (for instance) in a country riven by, say, civil war?



There's no unemployment anywhere except France? Never mind any civil strife or other problems?



You made a sweeping statement - you've now made another one, about "thousands" of Britons arriving in France to 'sponge' off the French state. I merely asked for the evidence on which you base such sweeping statements. There must be some, surely? You must be basing these statements on something.

Do you believe benefit fraud goes on in the uk ? - I assume you will say 'Yes of course' so then I say 'well how can you prove it ' (unless of course benefit fraud doesn't exist in the UK)
the only way to do that would be to name names which is too easy but rather dangerous for me and my family wouldn't you think ? I know dozens of people who I mix with who are cheating the system and that's only within quite a small area around us so - France is a big country so multiply my experience a few thousand times - thousands are on the fiddle
As I have said the vast majority of brits are fine but the minority,that being thousands are cheating in one form or another or expect to be looked after by the french state - you really wouldn't believe what some people try to get away with.Problem is that it gives all brits a bad reputuation
If I 'pm' you names and addresses would you be prepared to denounce these people to the UK tax authorities ?

exactly - the 5% (ok maybe 10% ) of employers who are flaunting the rules are employing 'black labour' (not in a racist sense) the vast majority of whom are from eastern europe and the UK - it's a fact - probably as they do in the UK ? or doesn't that sort of thing happen in your great country ?
This may come as a shock to you matey but there are some dishonest people about ! and you and I and other decent folk atre paying for them.

It's one thing to think such – and entirely another to go around making sweeping statements about "thousands" of "spongers".

So let's try again: where is the evidence for your assertion that "thousands" of Britons go to France to 'sponge' – and, indeed, many other immigrants to the country?



You mix with some nice people, then? Perhaps you should try changing the company you keep. Perhaps you should also ...



So you're not reporting them? You whinge and whine and complain and make sweeping generalisations, but will not provide the relevant authorities, in the country where these people are allegedly 'sponging', with the details yourself? So much for your concerns!

Flaunting the rules? What on Earth are you talking about?

Workers from every country in the EU (barring Bulgaria and Romania) may work in France without restriction. So what rules are those 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 employers 'flaunting' (I think you mean flouting, by the way)? It's hardly 'black labour' (I think you mean 'black market labour') if they are legally entitled to work there, is it?

So what you're saying is that most French employers favour French applicants and between 5% and 10% (anything to back up these figures?) employ [isome[/i legal workers from other EU countries. If you're ok with people coming there to work, this shouldn't bother you one bit.

Due to the high tax rates and general human greed there is a number of people from many nationalites that work "on the black" as it termed in France. No invoice, they don't pay tax etc. It is heavily frowned upon by the French but it does go on. There is a perception from the French that British people move over to already heavily UK populated areas in france offering their "services" quite often they are unskilled and leave many unhappy customers with bigger problems on their hands. All for the sake of trying to save a few quid.

That sort of thing goes on in every country, I'm sure, but it's not just immigrants who are responsible.

Correct that is what I said, people from many nationalities

It wasn't clear from what you said whether you were including the French or not. I was just clarifying.

Quote ="Rock God X" Quote ="sanjunien" [uFlaunting the rules? What on Earth are you talking about? [/u sorry,I meant flouting,excuse me. [uWorkers from every country in the EU (barring Bulgaria and Romania) may work in France without restriction. So what rules are those 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 employers 'flaunting' (I think you mean flouting, by the way)? It's hardly 'black labour' (I think you mean 'black market labour') if they are legally entitled to work there, is it? [/u they may work 'legally' without restriction yes,of course,paying their french taxes and contributing to the french economy.I would prefer that immigration legal and of course illegal be severly restricted hence my support of Marine le Pen [uSo what you're saying is that most French employers favour French applicants and between 5% and 10% (anything to back up these figures?) employ [isome[/i legal workers from other EU countries. If you're ok with people coming there to work, this shouldn't bother you one bit.[/u i'm not 'ok' with foreigners coming to France but have to respect the laws in force at the time.What I am against,just as you should be in the UK is the passage of illegal workers and spongers who have no intention of working who are taking advantage of the system me and you are subsidising. an interesting article (badly translated from the spanish or portugese) eddycabreralawservices.com/web/e ... s-ilegales

Quote ="Rock God X" Quote ="sanjunien" [uFlaunting the rules? What on Earth are you talking about? [/u sorry,I meant flouting,excuse me. [uWorkers from every country in the EU (barring Bulgaria and Romania) may work in France without restriction. So what rules are those 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 employers 'flaunting' (I think you mean flouting, by the way)? It's hardly 'black labour' (I think you mean 'black market labour') if they are legally entitled to work there, is it? [/u they may work 'legally' without restriction yes,of course,paying their french taxes and contributing to the french economy.I would prefer that immigration legal and of course illegal be severly restricted hence my support of Marine le Pen [uSo what you're saying is that most French employers favour French applicants and between 5% and 10% (anything to back up these figures?) employ [isome[/i legal workers from other EU countries. If you're ok with people coming there to work, this shouldn't bother you one bit.[/u i'm not 'ok' with foreigners coming to France but have to respect the laws in force at the time.What I am against,just as you should be in the UK is the passage of illegal workers and spongers who have no intention of working who are taking advantage of the system me and you are subsidising. an interesting article (badly translated from the spanish or portugese) eddycabreralawservices.com/web/e ... s-ilegales

[uThat sort of thing goes on in every country, I'm sure, but it's not just immigrants who are responsible.[/u


yes,we know it happens in every country but we are talking about France which is a special case maybe along with Spain who have suffered from cowboy workers for decades from the UK as well as local cowboys of course.
peggy is spot on when she/he said about many unhappy customers who have been conned by these people.As I said in an earlier posting many of these cowboys get found out or denounced by the french tradesmen who pay a lot in Social Charges (NI etc) to be legal - most of the cowboys don't last long but others move around the country until they have nowhere else to go but usually end up getting their just desserts.Many of the people working illegally aren't always bad tradesmen but they still get caught out and still creates a big headache for the victims/customers when something goes wrong usually when the planning laws have been ignored resulting in hefty bills afterwards to repair the mistakes made.