We've commented on plenty of this previously, and in addition to what you've rightly highlighted, you can add businesses whinging about school leavers not being trained in, say, customer relations, as has happened in recent years.

Quick history lesson, but very relevant to that comment:

When I left school (pre thatcher!), only 7% of the population went on to get a degree - I'm one of the 93% .... Now I find myself out of work, and despite 30+ years experience in the water/wastewater sector, I can't get an interview because I can't get past the HR robots who insist you must have a degree or the application goes directly in the bin.

I then get the flip side from neighbours/friends kids who have degrees in subjects totally unrelated to engineering who are granted interviews for the very same posts, only to be rejected because, you've guessed it, they haven't got any relevant experience.

To say the country's gone mad is an understatement.

edit : back to thread topic - anyone slags off this government for zero hours contracts has been sleeping. They've been rife throughout engineering sector for well over a decade - when that lovely "butter wouldn't melt" President Blair was in office! Did he care? Too busy trying to get £1m notes into a salary designed to hold £100k....

I first noticed it back in the early 1990s, when looking for jobs I was more than capable of doing, but seeing a massive expansion in jobs saying they were for graduates.



I'm not sure anyone here would suggest they were a new phenomenon – simply one that is rapidly expanding.

And there are few (if any) here who would be likely to appear ardent supporters of Blair. In terms of general ideology, his government continued the work of its two predecessors, continuing with privatisation and deregulation, good neo-liberal that he is.

I totally sympathise with you, but I might be stating the obvious here - do you ever speak to the person who is handling the application or perhaps write to the person who would potentially be your boss but who may not even be aware that he is being fed low grade candidates because of his company's ridiculous criteria ?

Forgive me if I'm barking up the wrong tree but fortunately I've never had to apply for a job in those circumstances, but if I did I'd be in exactly the same situation as you, forty years of work experience, accomplished in electrical and comms installations, conversant with SQL and database applications, but with absolutely no qualifications whatsoever apart from the ability to swim 25 yards at 11 years of age without putting my feet on the bottom.




I have a friend who is a QS in civil engineering and he too has been employed by the same contractor (a government department) on the same job and even mostly on the same site, but is virtually a sub-contractor in all but name, no hours, no holiday or sick pay - and he's been there for at least ten years to my knowledge.

Shagability if their female?
Or is that just shallow old me?

A wine bar I used to frequent once advertised for a "witty and urbane bar person". I wondered what wittyand urbane meant until I saw the successful candidate: "blonde with big tits"

MY mate who had the Commercial for many years would not employ dogs.
I am eternally grateful as I managed to get a piece of several of them.

What were these industries? What has happened to them?

Most big companies in the engineering sector (the little ones with less than 20 employees have been forced out by legislation) now don't even handle their own recruitment these days, instead appointing outside agencies who liaise with corporate HR depts. Contacting the manager who will be your boss, which I always try to do as a matter of courtesy, has become futile.

One incident sums it up (and is sadly not an isolated one): I was head of a network analysis dept for 3 years at a water utility 12 yrs ago. I always hit/exceeded targets etc. During those 3 years, I trained up an engineering graduate to take over the post so I could move on, and moved to a job at an outside consultancy. Last year I applied for a job at that utility co. which 'skill matched' my CV - It turned out to be as an assistant to the bloke I had trained up, so he could finally move up the ladder! ..... Even with his help I couldn't get past the HR gestapo who kept insisting "The post requires a degree qualification" ..... No it doesn't !!! He was eventually given the choice of a Polish engineering graduate who spoke little English so couldn't write reports (essential to the job), a history grad, and someone with a maths degree, none of whom have any experience in the water/wastewater industry.

And people wonder why there's hosepipe bans & flooding in the same areas .... Global warming, my ar5e.

How old are you, just so I know what your level of knowledge of British industry is/has been these past 40 years ?

The industries I speak of are still around by the way.

Again you have my sympathy.

I deal with many of the biggest recruitment company's in the country as clients, I see the "account managers" most days and frankly your tale does not surprise me for how can a person organise recruitment for a technical post when they had never heard of the trade until five minutes ago, you might as well put me in charge of recruiting for your job



Although they keep me in work I do despair sometimes at the number of large engineering companies that they have as clients and when I go to those sites I find that the majority of staff are agency staff, its like there is no responsibilty within technical and engineering any more to find, train and retain a workforce, not when you can just get a body to fill a space with one phone call.

That's a f'kin joke and simply highlights the flaws in the way many companies are now conducting their recruitment process.

Are zero hours contracts a new thing? Just wondering why the focus on them all of a sudden.

Question has already been asked, read the thread and find out.

Dunno about his real age but Bet Victor have opened a book on how long before this persona goes the same way of previous incarnations

I didn't actually use the toilet, it was my daughter and niece, that is they went in and pretty quickly came back out again, still clutching their unused toilet paper, faces horror struck.

It was back in the 80's the first visit and everything was so cheap, you could hardly spend your money. The wine co-ops used to set up bodegas with barrels of wine from each of their own vineyards with loads of free tapenade, olives and radishes. We bought wine, drank it, handed the bottle back and they refilled it and wouldn't take any money. In fact, we got rip roaring drunk along with the guys and gals selling the wine.

Our last visit was in 2001 and things had changed considerably, especially prices. The atmosphere of the place was still lovely, the people very friendly but it was very busy and a little bit more reserved, with lots of German, Dutch, Brits and Italian visitors.

We're going back next June, ferry to Bilbao, flirt through Spain and then doing the A9 run through to Montpellier and on the way spend 5 days in Collioure then catch a Dragons game. Can't wait.

I have an excellent knowledge, which is why I asked you to which industries you were referring. I didn't ask whether they still existed or not. I asked what had happened to them.

What previous incarnations are these?

Let's hear it, instead of juvenile whispering campaigns between you.

Then you should already have the knowledge of which you ask, I know I do because I was involved in one of the trades, so how old are you and what is your experience of industry these past 40 years ?

Or do you not like questions ?

His/her posts are mostly composed of questions and very few, if any, statements or attempts at answers.
My assumption is that this is how (s)he hopes to undermine another person's posts without presenting facts that might be disproved.

As with a child who constantly asks "why?", "what for?", "why?", you can't debate with such a fog.

[url=http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/2013/09/18/the-real-dwp-reveals-the-real-agenda-behind-universal-credit/Interesting piece including DWP advice on Universal Credit to employers, suggesting it is, in part at least, designed to quite deliberately casualise the workforce.[/url

On a slight tangent, I've mentioned before that a friend of mine is unemployed, she's recently been forced to go on on an unpaid 2 week work trial stacking shelves at a budget supermarket. If she didnt she was threatened with having her benefits stopped.

The only cost to the supermarket for having 480 hours of work (8 of them at 30 hours per week for 2 weeks) is bus fares. So a maximum of £280.

When will the Taxpayers' Alliance – that band of shady, unelected, unaccountable Tory supporters – condemn this use of taxpayer's money to subsidise big business?

Why should a probationary period for a job be unpaid – or paid by the state rather than the company, if it actually requires someone to do such a job?

Spot on. Plus there's 8 of them on this trial and there aren't 8 jobs available at the end of the trial. There's 3 or 4 max. So 4 people will have done 2 weeks work for free.

Indeed.

And the question that this begs is how, if it's a trial, they are 'judged' and how those who do not get jobs at the end of it are 'judged' and whether that will have an impact on their benefit status. After all, if there are only four jobs and you have eight candidates, they might all be equally good, so you'll end up picking for something unrelated to the job – effectively, you have to invent another criteria. If that impacts on a benefit claim, what criteria would be used?