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| International Chairman | 28357 | No
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| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
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| May 2024 | Oct 2019 | LINK |
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| Quote ="BrisbaneRhino"... If people choose not to take out mortgage protection insurance or similar products then - just as with any insurance - they shouldn't whine if things go wrong and they can't pay. Whilst banks are dumb for lending too much money in good times, so are most people who borrow way more than they can safely afford.'"
The typical scenario found by someone who lost their job due to the antics of Fred the Shred & co would be that when they took out the mortgage, they were [iobliged[/i to take out mortgage insurance. This would cover the lender, so that under NO circumstances was the lender at any risk, as any shortfall on a forced sale would be covered by the insurance company as a result of the premiums which the borrower (and not the bank) had compulsorily paid.
Then the insurance company would sue the borrower for the shortfall. |
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| Club Coach | 14135 | No
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| Oct 2004 | 20 years | |
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| Quote ="Mintball"When in fact they, and big business, just nick it from everyone of the rest of us.'"
Nick it? I don't remember Tesco ever nicking anything from me. I've usually exchanged a few quid for some goods I require.
I'm assured plenty people steal from Tesco, though. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Coach | 14135 | No
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| Oct 2004 | 20 years | |
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| Apr 2019 | Apr 2019 | LINK |
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| Quote ="Dally"Who are HSBO - you keep referring to them?'"
It's that TV station that makes big budget American dramas. That's where she gets her 'facts' from, I think. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 28357 | No
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| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
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| May 2024 | Oct 2019 | LINK |
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| Quote ="ROBINSON"Nick it? I don't remember Tesco ever nicking anything from me. I'"
Then you should have watched Panorama the other night. Basically, they're very good at it. |
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| Club Owner | 17898 | No
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| Oct 2003 | 21 years | |
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| Mar 2020 | Aug 2019 | LINK |
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| Quote ="Dally"The people who do nick money are the public sector pension grabbers.'"
So you'd prefer a load of retired public sector workers to be unable to pay their mortgages, eat, heat and light their properties?
You do realise, don't you, that public sector workers a) pay tax on their earnings when they work, b) make purchases in the real world, some of them every day, thereby contributing to VAT and other tax revenues that businesses pay, as well as company profits and c) when people retire, they don't suddenly get everything for free so that the pensions they receive just sit there and the money is effectively removed from the economy?
You do realise that don't you? Please tell me you do. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 14845 | No
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| Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
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| Oct 2021 | Jul 2021 | LINK |
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| Quote ="Damo-Leeds"What most people want is a stable home for long periods of time and if that isn’t reasonable then I don’t know what is.
'"
Humankind's natural status is that of nomadic hunter gatherer. That's what we are evolved for. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 14845 | No
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| Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
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| Oct 2021 | Jul 2021 | LINK |
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| Quote ="El Barbudo"Maybe when HSBC buy HBOS (not to be confused with RBS) from LBG (who own what used to be TSB, CGBS and HBOS), the new firm will be called HSBO?'"
I thought she may be getting confused with that US Channel that the boxing is / used to be on. |
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| International Chairman | 14845 | No
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| Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
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| Oct 2021 | Jul 2021 | LINK |
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| Quote ="Chris28"So you'd prefer a load of retired public sector workers to be unable to pay their mortgages, eat, heat and light their properties?
You do realise, don't you, that public sector workers a) pay tax on their earnings when they work, b) make purchases in the real world, some of them every day, thereby contributing to VAT and other tax revenues that businesses pay, as well as company profits and c) when people retire, they don't suddenly get everything for free so that the pensions they receive just sit there and the money is effectively removed from the economy?
You do realise that don't you? Please tell me you do.'"
I do but they have abused their positions. They are on average paid more than non-public sector workers and on average enjoy much better pensions. Nothwithstanding the fact that they pay tax on their income they are still, of course, funded by the rest of society that is on average substantially poorer than them. Let's say a local authoity manager retires on a pension of £60,000 that's equivalent to a £1m + capital asset and their personal contributions will account for a modest part thereof Now there an awful lot of people in the public sector who are made millionaires like that (despite the usual matra about averages of £6,000 pa - still much more than lower).
If the public sector does not actually cost anything why is Greece, with its bloated public sector, bust and the UK so indebted? |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 11757 | No
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| Jul 2007 | 18 years | |
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| Sep 2024 | Apr 2024 | LINK |
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Quote ="Cronus"No other country is obsessed with mortgages and home ownership like the UK and the rest of the world manages just fine. '"
The rest of the world manages just fine?
Are you that deluded, that ignorant and that detached from current affairs in the world that you can come in and make sweeping statements like this?
Perhaps you could have a look at these Americans that aren’t doing fine and are struggling to pay off debt: wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/archive
You see mortgages aren’t the only financial noose that people take a risk with to improve their lives and in many cases improve the world. I think you’ll find that you’re looking at things from a very narrow angle.
Here’s some non-English websites set up in other countries because things aren’t fine whatsoever.
revolutionsweden.wordpress.com/
www.onesolutionrevolution.de/
revo.revoluce.info/
There’s even more out they if you want to educate yourself about the struggles of the world.
Quote What a surprise. You want everything on a plate. Someone can't repay the money loaned to them (or pay their rent) and you think it's some sort of scandal they may have to move? Who should cover their bills? The taxpayer? Or should homes be handed out free as well?
Damo: a textbook example of the "the world owes me a living" generation.'"
With this misguided body of writing you put together by seeing my name and going on a cliché rant against me. I don’t think you even read what I put. You just fancied having a pop.
Let me make things clear. My mate got evicted from his old flat because his housemate (who wasn’t very nice) couldn’t afford to pay his bills. So my mate got chucked out of that flat through no fault of his own. I was just giving an example of how most things can be out of people’s hands when it comes to things like this. |
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Quote ="Cronus"No other country is obsessed with mortgages and home ownership like the UK and the rest of the world manages just fine. '"
The rest of the world manages just fine?
Are you that deluded, that ignorant and that detached from current affairs in the world that you can come in and make sweeping statements like this?
Perhaps you could have a look at these Americans that aren’t doing fine and are struggling to pay off debt: wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/archive
You see mortgages aren’t the only financial noose that people take a risk with to improve their lives and in many cases improve the world. I think you’ll find that you’re looking at things from a very narrow angle.
Here’s some non-English websites set up in other countries because things aren’t fine whatsoever.
revolutionsweden.wordpress.com/
www.onesolutionrevolution.de/
revo.revoluce.info/
There’s even more out they if you want to educate yourself about the struggles of the world.
Quote What a surprise. You want everything on a plate. Someone can't repay the money loaned to them (or pay their rent) and you think it's some sort of scandal they may have to move? Who should cover their bills? The taxpayer? Or should homes be handed out free as well?
Damo: a textbook example of the "the world owes me a living" generation.'"
With this misguided body of writing you put together by seeing my name and going on a cliché rant against me. I don’t think you even read what I put. You just fancied having a pop.
Let me make things clear. My mate got evicted from his old flat because his housemate (who wasn’t very nice) couldn’t afford to pay his bills. So my mate got chucked out of that flat through no fault of his own. I was just giving an example of how most things can be out of people’s hands when it comes to things like this. | |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Owner | 17898 | No
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| Oct 2003 | 21 years | |
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| Mar 2020 | Aug 2019 | LINK |
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| Quote ="Dally"I do but they have abused their positions. They are on average paid more than non-public sector workers and on average enjoy much better pensions. Nothwithstanding the fact that they pay tax on their income they are still, of course, funded by the rest of society that is on average substantially poorer than them. Let's say a local authoity manager retires on a pension of £60,000 that's equivalent to a £1m + capital asset and their personal contributions will account for a modest part thereof Now there an awful lot of people in the public sector who are made millionaires like that (despite the usual matra about averages of £6,000 pa - still much more than lower).
If the public sector does not actually cost anything why is Greece, with its bloated public sector, bust and the UK so indebted?'"
What abuse of their positions are they guilty of?
Nice use of averages to support your argument too - on "average" paid more, which means some won't be, and the "average" of £6k pension per year, which means some won't be on anything like it, if your local authority manager is on a £60K pension. Have you ever tried to live on £6K a year?
Genuine question - how does a £60K pension = a £1m+ capital asset? I honestly don't know so need some assistance understanding that.
I never said the public sector doesn't cost anything, but unless you want to pay direct to abuse the doctors and nurses you have such a problem with, or get your debit card out when you want to report a crime to the police, or have a coin meter on your local street light, you have to pay for public services. If you don't like how "your" money is spent or think some public services should be scrapped, stand for election to the council and bring the system down from within. |
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| Player Coach | 1650 | No
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| Apr 2009 | 16 years | |
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| Nov 2012 | Nov 2012 | LINK |
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Chris soon they will be "fully" like the rest of us and pay into a pension prior to taking there pay home. Its quite easy lots of people do it without the government doing it for you.
40% savings for me by paying into my pension at source-bargain
I see it as a benefit and one I will benefit from later in life
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| Player Coach | 2359 | No
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| Nov 2005 | 19 years | |
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| Feb 2021 | Feb 2020 | LINK |
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| Quote ="Dally"I do but they have abused their positions. They are on average paid more than non-public sector workers and on average enjoy much better pensions. Nothwithstanding the fact that they pay tax on their income they are still, of course, funded by the rest of society that is on average substantially poorer than them. Let's say a local authoity manager retires on a pension of £60,000 that's equivalent to a £1m + capital asset and their personal contributions will account for a modest part thereof Now there an awful lot of people in the public sector who are made millionaires like that (despite the usual matra about averages of £6,000 pa - still much more than lower).
If the public sector does not actually cost anything why is Greece, with its bloated public sector, bust and the UK so indebted?'"
What a load of twaddle. Lets quash a few of your "facts". My husband can earn more doing what he does in the private sector or self employed but likes where he is and is happy. My husband earns below the national average salary so how do you work out that society on average is substantially poorer than him? Local authority manager on £60,000, you don't know much do you? My father in law was a local area housing manager and was on much, much less then you quote. My husbands pension equates to just above minimum wage. Not really gold plated as to brass plated. Apart from that everything you've quoted from your muched loved Daily Mail is true. Well it has to be hasn't it because thats what the papers say? |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 14845 | No
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| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Oct 2021 | Jul 2021 | LINK |
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| Quote ="Chris28"What abuse of their positions are they guilty of?
Nice use of averages to support your argument too - on "average" paid more, which means some won't be, and the "average" of £6k pension per year, which means some won't be on anything like it, if your local authority manager is on a £60K pension. Have you ever tried to live on £6K a year?
Genuine question - how does a £60K pension = a £1m+ capital asset? I honestly don't know so need some assistance understanding that.
I never said the public sector doesn't cost anything, but unless you want to pay direct to abuse the doctors and nurses you have such a problem with, or get your debit card out when you want to report a crime to the police, or have a coin meter on your local street light, you have to pay for public services. If you don't like how "your" money is spent or think some public services should be scrapped, stand for election to the council and bring the system down from within.'"
When someone retires their pension benefits are usually secured by the scheme's trustees purchasing an annuity with insurers. A very good annuity rate for a 65 year old at present would be 6%, meaning it would cost £1m to secure a £60,000pa pension. In reality, some of the higher paid public sector employees have until recently been retiring in the early / mid-50s, which means their penson provision will have cost an awful lot more. |
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| International Board Member | 28186 | No
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| Apr 2003 | 22 years | |
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| Aug 2016 | Aug 2016 | LINK |
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| Quote ="Dally"When someone retires their pension benefits are usually secured by the scheme's trustees purchasing an annuity with insurers. A very good annuity rate for a 65 year old at present would be 6%, meaning it would cost £1m to secure a £60,000pa pension. In reality, some of the higher paid public sector employees have until recently been retiring in the early / mid-50s, which means their penson provision will have cost an awful lot more.'"
What percentage of public sector employees do you reckon are drawing £60k pa as a salary, let alone as a pension?
As usual, you're resorting to ill-informed hyperbole in an attempt to make your point, which does nothing but detract from whatever validity it may have had. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 14522 | No
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| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Jan 2014 | Jan 2014 | LINK |
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Isn't the average public sector pension a "gold-plated and generous" £5,600 pa ?
Not exactly life-of-luxury is it?
To be clear to all, I don't work in the public sector.
My own private sector pension-pot is shot to ribbons, even the "experts" couldn't look after it.
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| International Chairman | 32466 | No
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| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Aug 2018 | Aug 2018 | LINK |
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| Quote ="El Barbudo"
To be clear to all, I don't work in the public sector.
My own private sector pension-pot is shot to ribbons, even the "experts" couldn't look after it.'"
The "experts" who were looking after mine have given up and passed the buck to someone else 
I seriously don't expect any of it to be left by the time I need it to live on, I'd be far better drawing it all out in cash today and putting it in a box under the bed, at least it would still all be there when I'm 65. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 14522 | No
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| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
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| Jan 2014 | Jan 2014 | LINK |
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| Quote ="McLaren_Field"The "experts" who were looking after mine have given up and passed the buck to someone else
I seriously don't expect any of it to be left by the time I need it to live on, I'd be far better drawing it all out in cash today and putting it in a box under the bed, at least it would still all be there when I'm 65.'"
Aye ... and I wouldn't need a very big box either. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 28357 | No
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| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
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| May 2024 | Oct 2019 | LINK |
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| Quote ="McLaren_Field"The "experts" who were looking after mine have given up and passed the buck to someone else
I seriously don't expect any of it to be left by the time I need it to live on, I'd be far better drawing it all out in cash today and putting it in a box under the bed, at least it would still all be there when I'm 65.'"
This. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 14845 | No
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| Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
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| Oct 2021 | Jul 2021 | LINK |
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"What percentage of public sector employees do you reckon are drawing £60k pa as a salary, let alone as a pension?
As usual, you're resorting to ill-informed hyperbole in an attempt to make your point, which does nothing but detract from whatever validity it may have had.'"
I was not concerned about percentages but in absolute numbers there's quite alot nationally. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Owner | 17898 | No
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| Oct 2003 | 21 years | |
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| Mar 2020 | Aug 2019 | LINK |
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| Quote ="Dally"I was not concerned about percentages but in absolute numbers there's quite alot nationally.'"
Link? |
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| Club Coach | 7152 | No
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| Jan 2005 | 20 years | |
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| Dec 2020 | Jun 2020 | LINK |
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Quote ="Damo-Leeds"The rest of the world manages just fine?
Are you that deluded, that ignorant and that detached from current affairs in the world that you can come in and make sweeping statements like this?
Perhaps you could have a look at these Americans that aren’t doing fine and are struggling to pay off debt: wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/archive
You see mortgages aren’t the only financial noose that people take a risk with to improve their lives and in many cases improve the world. I think you’ll find that you’re looking at things from a very narrow angle.
Here’s some non-English websites set up in other countries because things aren’t fine whatsoever.
revolutionsweden.wordpress.com/
www.onesolutionrevolution.de/
revo.revoluce.info/
There’s even more out they if you want to educate yourself about the struggles of the world.'"
We were talking about mortgages, Damo, not the global economic crisis. Go and educate yourself about the living arrangements in the majority of Europe. They rent, or remain living with family. Some buy, but they are the minority. The UK is almost unique in its obsession with home ownership.
Oh, and I make it a rule never to read a website with the word 'revolution' in the url. The usual loony paranoid conspiracy obsessed manics are sure to be lurking in some guise or other, and a glance at that '99' site proves me correct.
Quote ="Damo-Leeds"With this misguided body of writing you put together by seeing my name and going on a cliché rant against me. I don’t think you even read what I put. You just fancied having a pop.
Let me make things clear. My mate got evicted from his old flat because his housemate (who wasn’t very nice) couldn’t afford to pay his bills. So my mate got chucked out of that flat through no fault of his own. I was just giving an example of how most things can be out of people’s hands when it comes to things like this.'"
Well diddums to your mate. Again, I ask you, who do you think should cover these bills? The government (and therefore the taxpayer)? Charity? Should the landlord bear the cost indefinitely until he can find a suitable tenant?
I assume your mate signed a tenancy agreement, did he check the terms in that before being ruthlessly evicted? |
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Quote ="Damo-Leeds"The rest of the world manages just fine?
Are you that deluded, that ignorant and that detached from current affairs in the world that you can come in and make sweeping statements like this?
Perhaps you could have a look at these Americans that aren’t doing fine and are struggling to pay off debt: wearethe99percent.tumblr.com/archive
You see mortgages aren’t the only financial noose that people take a risk with to improve their lives and in many cases improve the world. I think you’ll find that you’re looking at things from a very narrow angle.
Here’s some non-English websites set up in other countries because things aren’t fine whatsoever.
revolutionsweden.wordpress.com/
www.onesolutionrevolution.de/
revo.revoluce.info/
There’s even more out they if you want to educate yourself about the struggles of the world.'"
We were talking about mortgages, Damo, not the global economic crisis. Go and educate yourself about the living arrangements in the majority of Europe. They rent, or remain living with family. Some buy, but they are the minority. The UK is almost unique in its obsession with home ownership.
Oh, and I make it a rule never to read a website with the word 'revolution' in the url. The usual loony paranoid conspiracy obsessed manics are sure to be lurking in some guise or other, and a glance at that '99' site proves me correct.
Quote ="Damo-Leeds"With this misguided body of writing you put together by seeing my name and going on a cliché rant against me. I don’t think you even read what I put. You just fancied having a pop.
Let me make things clear. My mate got evicted from his old flat because his housemate (who wasn’t very nice) couldn’t afford to pay his bills. So my mate got chucked out of that flat through no fault of his own. I was just giving an example of how most things can be out of people’s hands when it comes to things like this.'"
Well diddums to your mate. Again, I ask you, who do you think should cover these bills? The government (and therefore the taxpayer)? Charity? Should the landlord bear the cost indefinitely until he can find a suitable tenant?
I assume your mate signed a tenancy agreement, did he check the terms in that before being ruthlessly evicted? | |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Player Coach | 10852 | No
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| Oct 2006 | 18 years | |
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| Jan 2018 | Aug 2016 | LINK |
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| Quote ="Dally"I was not concerned about percentages but in absolute numbers there's quite alot nationally.'"
Well if 'quite a lot' of public sector employees earn £60k+, that seems like an excellent reason to shaft the majority who earn a lot less than that. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 14845 | No
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| Dec 2001 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Oct 2021 | Jul 2021 | LINK |
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"What percentage of public sector employees do you reckon are drawing £60k pa as a salary, let alone as a pension?
As usual, you're resorting to ill-informed hyperbole in an attempt to make your point, which does nothing but detract from whatever validity it may have had.'"
I haven't had time to research the numbers, but in 2009/10 there were 481 public sector workers in Leicesterhire earning more than £100,000 of which 122 earned more than £142,000. So earning £60,000 there will be many thousands nationally. If there were just 10,000 on £60,000 pa that would be 10,000 would be millionaires in the pipeline with pension assets of £10 billion. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| Club Owner | 17898 | No
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| Oct 2003 | 21 years | |
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| Mar 2020 | Aug 2019 | LINK |
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| Quote ="Dally"I haven't had time to research the numbers, but in 2009/10 there were 481 public sector workers in Leicesterhire earning more than £100,000 of which 122 earned more than £142,000. So earning £60,000 there will be many thousands nationally. If there were just 10,000 on £60,000 pa that would be 10,000 would be millionaires in the pipeline with pension assets of £10 billion.'"
If we're using inaccurate figures, let's say 10000 public sector workers on a salary over £60000 out of 2m public sector workers (figures claimed for the strike last week) = 0.5% of the public sector workforce. If we assume that the population of the UK is 65m, that is 0.01% of the population. If the working age population is assumed to be 35m (and I haven't got a figure for that) its still only 0.03%
Hardly worth losing sleep over is it? I've certainly got better things to direct my ire at. |
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| Rank | Posts | Team |
| International Chairman | 14522 | No
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| Joined | Service | Reputation |
| Feb 2002 | 23 years | |
| Online | Last Post | Last Page |
| Jan 2014 | Jan 2014 | LINK |
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| Quote ="Dally"I haven't had time to research the numbers, but in 2009/10 there were 481 public sector workers in Leicesterhire earning more than £100,000 of which 122 earned more than £142,000. So earning £60,000 there will be many thousands nationally. If there were just 10,000 on £60,000 pa that would be 10,000 would be millionaires in the pipeline with pension assets of £10 billion.'"
I'd like to replay RGX's reply to you again.
i.e. Why shaft the low-paid? |
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