These anecdotes of "I know someone that was unemployed and they found a job" don't prove anything - the facts are there are loads of people out of work who are trying hard to get jobs and can't get them.

Knocking on business doors isn't going to get Damo a job, they will tell him to f off, I wonder how many people on rlfans would offer Damo a job, or would their businesses offer him a job? The answer will be no there aren't any vacancies, or if there are, then he should apply like the other 100 odd people that have put in for them.

I offered Damo full time work - he declined end of.

My cousin managed to find work in Rhyl which is one of the worse areas in the UK to find work. They’ll always be success stories of people getting into employment when so many people are trying. You put one thousand unemployed people into a room and the probability is that some of them will get a job if you sent them all on a task looking for one. But in this current jobs market many of them would more than likely remain unemployed. It’s just simple maths.

Now they was a time when I did knock on every door in the area and passed my CV on. But after a while (probably in my second year of unemployment) I though f**k this because no ones giving me a break and I didn’t want to spend a lifetime applying for loads of jobs every week. So these days I apply for jobs when I feel like it whilst doing some voluntary work.

And sal you didn’t offer me a straight out job. It was a job opportunity like any other job opening out they.

And precisely what does that mean?

A job to apply for as opposed to an outright job offer that Sal is making it out to be.

So did you take the opportunity?

Whether or not Damo as an individual is in or out of work, either willingly or not, is pretty insignificant in the scheme of things. For every Damo there are hundreds of others who are desperately trying and desparately failing to find employment.

That's why even the Tories at least pretend to care:
"Any increase in unemployment is disappointing and obviously a tragedy for the person who becomes unemployed - that is why we are taking action to get people back to work"...David Cameron

You could take the argument further and present it to anyone that complains about "things getting a bit tough" and "the cost of living rising" - well get off your backsides and get a better paying job then, it's not rocket science.

If you think life is expensive now, ask yourself....how many better paying jobs have you applied for in the past month? Why haven't you applied for more? Why not contact all the employers in your field or work and ask have they got any vacancies for better paying jobs? Have you asked your current employer for more hours?

If you can't get off your lazy backsides to get a better job then you can't complain about the cost of living. There are opportunities out there it's your own fault if you're too feckless to go for them.

We seem to be forgetting that, when the music stops, there aren't enough chairs for everyone.

Yes, there are chairs out there ... but not enough !

But what do we want chairs for? Sally Cinnamon has told people to get [uof[/u their lazy backsides and stop complaining.

...all of which, in today's economic climate is about as rational as saying to an amputee: 'Why don't you just go out and grow a new leg. Have you thought of getting someone else's leg. There's loads of legs out there. It's you're own fault you're struggling to walk.'

My only worry with your post is that there are probably people on here who actually believe it's a sane argument.

Don't joke. One of the criteria to get DLA/PIP now will be you can only receive it if you cannot get out of a wheelchair to walk 50m, even with crutches and/or zimmer frame and even then you have to be able to propell that wheelchair the distance yourself, someone else pushing you doesn't count as they class it as you have the help (ie the pusher)

And theres STILL some people out there who cannot praise this government enough.

It's irrelevant whenever I did or didn't. But since your asking I didn't.

I may be wrong, but I suspect that Sally wasn't being entirely serious.

But he brings up a point – which is the 'aspirational' that has taken off over the last 30 years and which seems to centre on the idea that 'I want more stuff' is good. Which of course it is, when you base your economy on the service and retail sectors. And therefore, it makes it part of the overall problem.

I certainly hope so. If I thought for a moment that it was antthing other than satirical I would have had a real blast at her, rather than anonymous 'other people' who might take it as a serious argument.

Also, I think 'she' is a 'he'.

Sorry if my lampoonery came over as being at the expense of the disabled, It wasn't meant to be.
I'm pretty disgusted by Tory attacks on DLA, social care and respite myself.

I didn't take it that way

I meant it to mean what you said was not far from the truth

Maybe you'd better say why that was.
Otherwise people might think you are whinging.

Untrue - it was a definite position, albeit and unskilled role but it was a definite not an opportunity. It would have guaranteed you 40 hours of game full employment. I think you didn't fancy the start time - 7.00 - nor the idea of starting at the bottom. Easier to stay in bed and moan about how unfair life is whilst the rest of toil away to provide the funds for you to idle your day away on the internet watching Denise Welch get her tits out!! You should be ashamed of your attitude - the fact you think it is funny is a total disgrace.

Turning this down should mean he loses any benefit.

Damo, you have no leg to stand on and backs up my shirker claim, Sal and I may not agree on quite a lot of things but to throw this offer backing in his face is nothing short of criminal.

I'll not comment at the fear of being classed as a waster who doesn't want to work like last time.

Although as you can all guess the christmas job was just that.

Until you can get someone or something to back you up that it was proper employment as opposed to just an opportunity to apply for, then people will just have to take your word for it. So feel free to speculate all you want in the meantime. But that’s all it’ll be - speculation and not solid FACT.

However to make a sweeping statement that I think that this is amusing is insulting. Anyone who has kept a close eye on these boards over the pass couple of years could clearly suss that I’m someone who absolutely loathes been unemployed.

Finally I am grateful that you made an effort of trying to get me into employment. Unfortunately your latest comments have left me wondering if you had an hidden agenda which involved using your interaction with me as fodder to help strengthen your clear dislike of me for future debates like this one.

But sunshine, that's part of the problem.

There are a number of people here who rarely agree with Sal Paradise. To see that they are more likely to believe him than you on this would tell a half-way intelligent person something.

Unfortunately, you're not even half way intelligent enough to understand that, let alone that nobody has any sympathy for you, but sees you as a pathetic individual who is actually almost the worst sort of example of what the tabloids and right wing portray in general.

I’m fine with people believing whatever they want. If you think I’m participating in this debate to convert the sinbin masses into believing everything that I write then you’ve got it very wrong.