It's fairly typical of Cameron's psyche though. Murray trousers £1.8 million and Camoron thinks that deserves a knighthood

Compare that to the 1966 World Cup winning team:

Only two knighthoods (Bobby /Charlton & Geoff Hurst)

It took 34 years to recognise Alan Ball, Roger Hunt, Nobby Stiles, Ray Wilson and George Cohen with MBEs

I don't think there's any chance of a Sir for Andy, but I think as usual most people miss the point when it comes to honours. You can minimise or denigrate what he achieved with a facetious "well he only just won a tennis game, and got well paid for it", but then you are deliberately ignoring the facts, you are irrationally discounting the true measures of the achievement. Which, on any view, is a massive achievement. It's a bit like saying Edmund Hillary "only climbed to the top of a hill". Yes, but which hill, and who did it last?

The honours system is IMHO in large parts broken, but equally I have seen huge numbers of awards for unsung heroes who have just quietly worked to help others for many years, or some such, and those sort of awards are richly deserved, and mean so much to the recipients.

I expect there's a greater than 50/50 chance Murray may get a knighthood though, bearing in mind recent form (Bradley Wiggins, anyone?) and he and Wiggins certainly would deserve one a damn sight more than some buggins' turn civil service penpusher.

Couple of questions for everyone...

1. If you met a Knight of the Realm would you call him "Sir", would you address him as "Sir Andrew" for instance ?

2. If you met Sir Andrew in a pub and he introduced himself as Sir Andrew how would that affect your opinion of him ?


Do you know anyone with one of the lesser medals, OBE for instance, who puts "OBE" at the end of their name when signing things, and would you do so if enobled ?

1. Errr, no.

2. I'd laugh hilariously.

I agree with you (for a change). If I were Murray I'd be embarrassed to be called "Sir" whilst still playing.

Speaking of Lowry we're going to the Tate (all being well) on Satuday. Parking space / tickets reserved. Been to Salford before but Mrs D was keen to go and see some of hs work again. I like it too. Reminds me of childhood when the family still owned a mill.

Have done so – and no. Have managed to meet royals and not use any particularly deferrential words, although still managed to be completely polite.





I'd think he was a plonker – a bit like Ben Kingsley, who went around demanding he be addressed in such a manner for some time after his knighthood.

The opportunity is too good to miss ...



[url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/lowry-painter-for-world.htmlLowry at the Tate[/url

[url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/lapping-up-lowry.htmlLowry at the, err, Lowry (and the Manchester Art Gallery)[/url

We have a client who insists of signing all his correspondence with MBE after his name. Twattish.

Erm, his cheque went to the Royal Marsden. Didn't make a song and dance about it, just did it.

There is a place for an honours system in a modern society but handing out gongs for winning a bike race or a tennis tournament isn't the way forward.

Mind in saying that, sports personality of the year is pretty much sewn up.

I am also of the opinion that anyone who isn't medically qualified, is a prick if he insists on using the title Dr.

And don't get me started on those who have been awarded honorary doctorates

Many years back I was waiting for a bus when bloke next to me announced totally out of the blue, as an opening line to the conversation that he was "A Sir", I managed to show a awesome amount of disinterest in that revelation and he promptly shut up.

1. It would depend entirely who it was, and my personal estimation of them. When I have met Geoff Boycott, I have always made a point of calling him Sir Geoff. I think the polite thing to do would be a bit like meeting your bird's dad -it would be "Mr. " which if he wasn't a tit should lead immediately to a "call me Fred" reply. Again, of those I've met, very few revel in or want to be called by their title, but where a nobody is speaking to a kegend then the alternatives seem, to me, inappropriate. Say you were a reporter for the Wigan Herald and you were interviewing Sir Alex Ferguson. You never met before. I would say that calling him "Alex" unbidded would be plain damn rude. Calling him "Mr. Ferguson" would be plain silly, as you are being politely deferential, by using a formal title, but you are using the wrong one. I would feel perfectly comfortable sticking with "Sir Alex".

2. He would be a first class knob.

3. No, and no.

Anyone who stick post nominals on a letter head, business card or signature block is ish. Unless they are a professional person (Dr, lawyer, accountant etc...) doing it in the course of their work. Even then, the 'done thing' is to drop everything but the highest qualification.

It's cringeworthy when your local estate agent / car salesman hands you a business card and they have put B.A. (Hons) after their name.

This. My old boss was knighted many years ago and said to us all at the time "I wonder who the first person to call me Sir Richard will be. And it better not be anyone working in this office". Similarly most of the Sirs I've met through my work have gone along with the above. Sir on first meeting then first name after that. Not had the misfortune yet to meet a Kingsley.

One of my customers is a Lady (cousin of the Queen and great,great,great granddaughter of Victoria). I get around the m'lady bollox by only talking to her husband (a commoner), who likes to be called Mark

Is that his name?

No, he's actually a dog with a hare lip

No, Murray shouldn't get a knighthood or any other honour. Yet. I don't think sports men & women should get honours until they've retired. For instance Jessica Ennis has a CBE, given primarily for her gold at the 2012 Olympics. So what happens if she wins gold again at the next one? And maybe another in a different event? The same applies to Murray, if he gets a knighthood for this Wimbledon win what does he get if he wins it again?
As for businessmen, well in some cases it might be justified but in general I'm against it as I think it often just goes to those who know the right people.
As for civil servants, it's a joke that completely devalues the honours. Civil servants shouldn't just get one simply for doing their job and because they're next in line, they should be the same as everyone else. If they make some kind of outstanding contribution then fine, but it shouldn't just be a perk of the job.

I like the honours system, I think it's a good way of the state recognising people and their contribution. I just wish it was better and more focused upon normal people rather than celebrities, current sportspeople and civil servants. I always remember seeing a programme on TV a few years ago that was primarily about the Queen but it showed her giving out some honours and had a quick piece with a farmer from Wales who was getting an MBE I think. He was an old guy who had been farming for about 45 years and came across as simply a quiet, gentle old man. He was literally in tears just talking about it. That's who should be getting these honours instead of, for instance, Rob Brydon.

Ferguson was knighted in 1999 - the year that he first won the Champions League.

Compare that with Brain Clough (two EC wins with Nottingham Forest in the late 70's, an achievement far greater than Ferguson's win with Man United), he was only given an OBE in 1992.

Bob Paisley. Won 3 EC's with Liverpool. Was given an OBE the year he retired.

Bill Shankly was given an OBE 4 months after he retired.

Given that others were given far less for far more, and the general abuse that was dished out by Ferguson after he'd been knighted, that should be a general warning not to give the highest awards out to people who are still operating in their field.

I think that was just a rumour on Twitter. Some journo or other later tweeted that he'd asked Murray and he'd said that it wasn't the case.

I don't agree with the honours system (as it stands) at all, so I wouldn't call anyone 'Sir xxx' whether I was meeting them for the first time or not. Incidentally, I wouldn't call my bird's dad 'Mr xxx' either. One can be polite without being deferential.



I'd say that would depend on what the protocol is for reporters interviewing football managers. If it would be acceptable for him to call David Moyes 'David' or Steve Bruce 'Steve', then there's no reason he shouldn't call Alex Ferguson 'Alex'. No person suddenly becomes more deserving of respect than another because they've been handed some arbitrary title by the government/head of state.

:3n0re05x


Er, he's already an OBE

:3n0re05x
I'd have a fair bet that in time she is a certainty for a Dame Jess. And that would be great.

:3n0re05x
See my earlier post, you're missing the point entirely. The recognition is for what you've done. Surely you can understand why Hillary, if he'd climbed Everest twenty more times, would not have got twenty more gongs? Or would you be puzzled by why there would not at all have been the same fuss about him doing it again, and again?

:3n0re05x
Tend to agree, especially as there are professional lobbying firms that exist to advise on and prepare for and assist making applications (yes anyone can apply or be put forward)
eg [url=http://www.awardsintelligence.co.uk/featuresdetail.asp?page=1408&gclid=CJO7_6DMpLgCFXQftAodrTkAMw:3n0re05xthis lot[/url:3n0re05x

:3n0re05x
I can see your point, but don't entirely agree, though I have never liked Buggins' turn systems. I think the common thread between civil service awards and sportsmen awards and many others is that of doing a great service for the country. The principle is OK but I'm not convinced it is properly applied.


But in fact a huge number of your "ordinary people" do get honours. It's just that apart from maybe a paragraph in their local papers, no media takes any interest in 99% of them. Not sure what Brydon has done wrong to single him out, but I suppose his award did come soon after he'd presented the Queen's Jubilee bash. Maybe Brenda had a word?

Does your missus know you've got a bird?

Strictly need to know, that, my fishy friend.

Kenny Dalglish MBE. Ian Rush MBE. Steven Gerrard MBE. Bob Paisley OBE. Bill Shankly OBE.

Sir Matt Busby. Sir Alex Ferguson. Ryan Giggs OBE. David Beckham OBE.

Do you get the feeling that either there are some Man United supporters in the machinery that gives out honours, or are Man United simply better at asking for them?