Ken Livingstone

She created today's housing crisis. She created the banking crisis. And she created the benefits crisis. It was her government that started putting people on incapacity benefit rather than register them as unemployed because the Britain she inherited was broadly full employment. She decided when she wrote off our manufacturing industry that she could live with two or three million unemployed, and the benefits bill, the legacy of that, we are struggling with today. In actual fact, every real problem we face today is the legacy of the fact that she was fundamentally wrong.

George Galloway @georgegalloway

Thatcher described Nelson Mandela as a "terrorist". I was there. I saw her lips move. May she burn in the hellfires.

Good points, nail on the head.

we do know the circumstances, he/she just told us. why is my comment crass? i'm just wondering if conditions were so crap, i know i wouldn't have let my grandparent stay there. i'd have carried them to my house.

Didn't I write just that last night? Ken is a plagiarist!

He did sell his soul to become mayor so anything is possible.

and then done what? Magicked some high quality palliative care out of thin air?

His pals were much nicer than Maggie.

And then what?

Would you have personally operated on them too?

Just heard that 2 coal mines that supply the furnaces of Hell have been closed already.

he would have taken the 7 years training to become a doctor, spent decades getting the necessary surgical experience, spent hundreds of thousands on kitting out an operating theatre, the thousands to pay for the necessary support staff (theatre nurses, anaesthatists etc), paid out the thousands for surgical equipment, paid out the thousands drugs it would be illegal for him to posses and illegal for him to prescribe to a family member, and performed the surgery, aftercare, and palliative care. And he would have done this in a matter of weeks whilst holding down a job to pay for it all.

Strivers versus skivers innit.

All that if he was around at the time of course...

That was Galloway telling Saddam that the Western democracies were hell-bent on killing hundreds of thousands of his countries innocent citizens.

Guess what?

It doesn't - sadly the majority of the shop owners didn't have enough about them to compete that is the really sad aspect. As you keep saying supermarket fresh food is dire - an easy opportunity for any good butcher/baker/fruit and veg seller to exploit - the fact they didn't is not the fault of the supermarket - lazy/spineless/incompetent - those that have taken up the challenge have prospered.

What it shows is a competitive market gets rid of the crap and only the strong survive. Morrisons started as one shop - M&S started as a market stall - it shows what is possible if you have the ability and the drive to succeed.

And the surgery needed.

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... -etiquette Good article on the "misplaced death etiquette" and the problems it can cause when applied to controversial political figures

www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... -etiquette Good article on the "misplaced death etiquette" and the problems it can cause when applied to controversial political figures

All in an age where there wasn't some giant retailers undercutting them until they went out of business, you really think they would survive in the current market?

True but planning regulations have an awful lot to do with it and if more thought had gone into where supermarkets were allowed to build it could well have saved hundreds of businesses and thousands of jobs.

Some extraordinary venom on this thread. It's like Lord of The Flies. Ordinary intellectuals reduced to frothing at the mouth like a rabid dog. Brilliant.

God bless Maggie. May angels rain down feathers and sunshine upon her face.

Sorry but that's a simplistic view.

It only takes a shift of 30% of trade from the independent to the supermarket to finish off the independent shop because that's his margin wiped out.
So, whilst potentially 70% of shoppers in a locale (let's just say a majority) might prefer the small independents, even if they stay loyal the independents still go bust.

No supermarket has an absolute monopoly but the power intrinsic in their sheer size means they have the same advantage over an independent as if they did have a monopoly.
Virtually the only ones who can compete in those circumstances are other supermarket chains ... and starting a supermarket chain from small beginnings these days is well-nigh impossible.

M&S started in 1884, Morrison's in 1889 ... they'd have no chance of the same growth if they were starting out now.

Hopefully C4 will re-run Brassed Off tonight

Good call.

When she took over we were labelled the 'sick man of Europe' and we had experienced the 'winter of discontent' when rubbish piled up on the streets and the dead were left unburied. She saved us from subsequent years of that kind of unelected union domination which was crucifying our country.

Of course - talented business people will always thrive - especially retailers it is about differentiation giving customers a reason to shop with you - spend less time moaning about the competition and more time finding the chink in their armour. You think Waitrose stop trying because every other major supermarket is way cheaper no they use the notion that their stuff is worth paying extra for - that is what serious business people do. How do M&S sell so much food given they are even more expensive than Waitrose - does Asda chopping prices cause them any grief?

Well said.