In all fairness, there is evidence that someone called Jesus existed. [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_JesusHistoricity of Jesus.[/url

Just to play, erm, Devil's advocate ...
To agree with the Christian philosophy, as purportedly preached by Jesus, doesn't require belief that he existed.
A bit similar to liking Shakespeare, regardless of whether the Stratford chap actually wrote it.

Oh, I appreciate that. But I was responding to a non-believer who claimed he didn't exist at all.

Which makes for certain amusing contrast.

I used to be a humanist, was brought up CofE but rejected it at a very young age, I was always a very inquisitive child and asked lots if questions at sunday school to a point were I was actually told I was a disruptive influence on the others. I've never thought that but I was always someone who strove for definitive answers which made religion a very hard sell for me. It's a similar reason I dropped psychology, to much theory not enough actual knowledge.

Now I'm not even a humanist, if we all disappeared off the earth it would be no bad thing.

The planet would then be over-run with chickens.
[iwith acknowledgement to Malcolm Lord[/i

Think of all the extraordinary things that would disappear too: for the universe never to hear a Beethoven symphony again or see once more a Turner landscape or listen to see Shakespeare on a stage or marvel at the curves of a Moore sculpture.

And that's sticking to Western classical culture.

It's easy to feel y about the state of the world, but there have been – and continue to be – magnificent achievements; amazing heights attained.

You are quite entitled to your opinion. In my opinion, there probably was a bloke. The message of love thy neighbour, non-retaliation and do to those as you would unto yourself if followed by all would make the world a better place.

I don't brain wash anyone. The kids at Sunday School are encouraged to think for themselves to draw their own conclusions. I encourage them to think of logical explanations to the 'miracles' and parables. What part of that is brain washing them?

Just out of interest, why do you have the flag of Israel in your signature?

There is a logical explanation, someone made them up. And anyone peddling their mythical religious beliefs is brain washing.



last I saw, it was a dog?

At what point did I suggest my beliefs were of a religious origin? I take a hypothetical story and apply logic and try to conclude with a moral, not religious, explanation. At no point do I mention God, or anything that can't be rationalised by science.

If you had read my previous posts rather than trying to suggest that I am a religious nut job, you might have realised all of this. Because you and others despise everything about religion, which I assume is based on prejudice and stereotyping, doesn't mean that people that go to church conform to your stereotype.

His signature is at the bottom, not at the side, I suggest you read what I put rather than criticise me without thinking it through. It was a genuine question related to his statement about religion.

but if we do live in an infinite universe where all things are possible then these things have already happened/are happening/will happen elsewhere many times

I don't know if you identify as a Christian or not but every Christian (or at least they have said they are Christian), I have spoken too has said that the core of Christianity is that Jesus was the son of God, Jesus died for our sins and that he was resurrected

He may be from Israel.

The bible was produced when people still thought the earth was the centre of the universe. It was used as a way to control the masses through fear. The sentiments of many on here is the reason why uneducated people were told that Jesus was the son of God and that he was resurrected. The church had to create awe and fear. A reason for people to go to church without fail or question. Advances in science and understanding now explains what is stated to be the work of God.

My opinion is that the core of Christianity should be the teachings of Jesus, an ordinary man that had an extraordinary understanding of man. I'm not fussed if I am classed as a Christian or not. Many people who would be classed as Christians, conventionally, do not live by or understand Christian values so how would you define a Christian?

...and vice-versa, many who do not define themselves as Christian live by values that would be defined by others as Christian values.

Exactly! So what would you define as being a Christian then? Or are we now dividing Christianity into two groups?

In response to West Leeds Rhino:

He isn't. If I mis-represent him, then I apologise in advance, but my understanding is that he a political supporter of Israel with a rather secular Zionist approach to the politics of the region.

Mmmm

, friends of Geller and Spencer.

I am not a religious person but the question still remains regarding the origins of the universe. This has yet to be understood, who is to say it wasn't divine intervention?

Because we don't know (at this time) all the details of the origins of life etc - more accurately, we don't know what was before Big Bang - doesn't mean that the answer is in any way supernatural.

There [imay[/i be some bigger form of life out there, but it's safe to say that there is no evidence for any of the divine explanations for life etc that have been offered by any Earthly religion, whether now extinct or not.

I don't know if you saw my edit on my original post, but i did change it "I don't know if you identify as a Christian", i don't want you to think i am trying to force you to define yourself as Christian or otherwise. It's really non of anyone's business, least of all mine.

You are the first person I've come across who has explicitly removed the divinity from Christianity, it just made me curious

Personally I would define a Christian as anyone who calls them self a Christian

Didn't see it but read it as that, I think.

Divinity has no place in Christianity. The whole point is that we treat each other as equals no matter who you are. To artificially elevate certain people above others, particularly within a church is completely missing the point. My opinion obviously.

If you're going with that then, who created God?

If something had to cause the big bang then how did that thing (divine or otherwise) get there? Was there another older God who created the current God? And if so how far back do you go?

It's more reasonable to presume that the Universe has been expanding and contracting over an infinite period of time.

What if all the world's inside of your head
Just creations of your own?
Your devils and your gods
All the living and the dead
And you're really all alone?

NiN

[urlhttp://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/johnlennon/god.html[/url

One of my faves.
I'm off for a listen.



[iI don't believe in Kennedy..................................[/i

[urlhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jknynk5vny8[/url

That's not the "whole point" of what is written in the gospels as Christ's teaching.

Oh, it's an aspect, but it's a tad difficult to remove all the 'son of god' stuff and what goes with it. So in essence, you're saying that the [iBible[/i got it wrong - even that Jesus got it wrong.

Religion has always been a pick 'n' mix affair, as you illustrate.