Been in Manchester this week and they have dinnor
.

This forum has discussed this before.
Definitely pudding ... seeing as dessert is the fruit and suchlke that comes [uafter[/u the pudding.

I'm confused. Surely the fruit is IN the pudding, under the crumble and surrounded by the custard? What else is it for?

Its Brekkie, Dinner and Tea.

Eric Pickles has 'em all at breakfast, dinner and tea (probably supper for that matter too)

Dinner = Main meal of day,
so

Mon - Fri => Dinner in the evening, Lunch during day
Sat/Sun => Dinner during Day => Tea in the evening.

And yet the midday break is the lunch break. And the time at which school dinners are eaten is referred to as lunchtime.


Both terms are used. The latter is now the more common judging by my kids and their friends.


You're aware that foreign languages get translated into English, yes? Guess what the English translation for the midday meal is.


Words and their usage change over time. The question asked was not about the origin of the word, but about usage.


Informative and yet utterly irrelevant.


Did you miss the bit about the M62 corridor?

And outside of that corridor employees have a lunch break, which at larger companies often incorporates hot meals of more than one course.


Late evening. As would my colleagues in Europe. And the USA. Granted I have no direct experience further afield.

That's pretty widely applicable, but how often have you seen a pub or restaurant advertise a Sunday Dinner?

Come to that, how often have you seen [iany[/i eatery offer a midday 'Dinner Menu'?

Was pretty much the same when I lived in North Devon, so I don't think it is limited to the M62 corridor.

Anyone else familiar with the term "putting-up"? In my family this was always referred to as the packed lunch as well as the act of making the packed lunch: "I've got the putting-up to do.", "Have you got your putting-up?".


We always had Sunday dinner at about 2 0'clock on a Sunday afternoon, same with Christmas dinner.

2 o'clock was pretty much universal I think as the Sunday pub opening times were 12noon 'till 2pm in the good old days when men (and their sons) went to the pub and the woman stayed in the house and cooked for them, and woe betide her if it wasn't on the table at 2.15 when they walked in the house.

Ah, yes ... but we must remember that eateries are not the best source of correct language (Barbudo's Menu Rule states that all menus contain at least one spelling mostake, for example), plus they like to use obscure words wherever possible ... even if they don't know what they mean (I saw pithivier on a menu once and asked what it was and the waiter had to go away and ask ... even then, it was wrong), so I don't think we should use them as exemplars of terminology.
If we did, we wouldn't say "fried" we'd say "pan fried" ... and just ask Cod'ead about Bass.

Yes, "Snap" was put up ... as in "I'm putting his snap up".

But it wouldn't have been "Have you got your put[uting[/u-up?" in my experience, rather it would have been "Have you got your put-up?"... but that could be a small regional variation.

Pan-fried.... I'm always pleased to know it's been fried in a pan, not held in the hand over a roaring flame.
What the frick else was it going to be fried in ffs? The wreck of the QE2?

See also 'oven roasted'. Yeah, that's how you roast things - in an effin oven. Not in a small Japanese hatchback.

Er, first it doesn't need translating. "The midday meal" is already in English.

But OK, let Google translate do some random translating, and see what it turns up:


Hmm. Maybe Google Translate is just doing that to spite you. Let's try another one.







You can get as indignant as you like, but there is no universal usage, or universal answer, and I think my view - that much depends on the size of the meal, and when the eater has their main meal of the day - is fair and accurate.

Your point about translations is in fact disingenuous, as any translator, when faced with the word for a given meal in a foreign language, will only provide a translation which is [ihis understanding[/i of the English equivalent. Which for obvious reasons will be heavily influenced by (a) who taught him English and their predilections and/or (b) whereabouts in English speaking lands he has lived (if at all). As my varying examples above clearly show.

But it's not just me. Somebody asked the question to Gareth Rees on the BBC learning site. This is what he had to say:



I'm going along with that as the best answer of modern usage.

I have to say I was going on how my foreign colleagues translated into English rather than Google Translate (which is far from infallible). A quick play around does come up with some surprising results that don't tally with how Germans and French - for example - actually use the terms. Speaking of German, mittagessen does translate to lunch in english and abendessen translates to dinner. I knew there was a reason why I liked Germans.


I wasn't getting indignant at all, merely pointing out that you appeared to be moving some goalposts. And in practice I find that most people still tend to call the midday meal lunch regardless of how large it might be - the exception typically being a traditional Sunday roast for some reason.


His description does not reflect my daily experience over the last 50 years or so spent in a variety of geographical locations. If I had to produce a list of the most common meal descriptors in chronological order it would be something along the lines of:

Breakfast
Brunch
Lunch
Tea
Dinner
Supper

Although tea and dinner are somewhat interchangeable, and the above list doesn't apply to Hobbits.

My daughter's school in Leeds (pronounced lids) has a paradoxical system of 'lunch-buddies' to help the little monkeys eat the gruel, overseen by 'Dinner-ladies'.

How do you work that out? The literal translation is pretty much midday meal and evening meal.

That only partly works for me.
Dinner may well have been the word for the main meal regardless of what time of day it was taken but I reckon usage has drifted since then.
Lunch has drifted into meaning the midday meal in some geographical areas, even where they mean a proper sit-down thing with cutlery and everything.
I'm sticking with dinner at or around midday and tea in early evening, regardless of size or content.

For some classes, supper is in the evening, like dinner, but is informal.
I guess my tea would be supper to them and dinner to some others.

Thanks to my daughter's swimming training we now have our tea at around 7:30-7:45pm! If we call it dinner, does that make us posh?

Yes. Even my rudimentary German is capable of a literal translation of those two words. However Google Translate, which we were talking about at that point, translates them to lunch and dinner respectively. As does every German I have ever spoken to.

Yeah, and we fought two massive wars to stop them imposing their ways on us. That's what it was all about, right?

I thought it was all about that bloke Archie Duke who shot an ostrich because he was hungry. Or was that only the first one?

I'm sorry Kosh ... but the terms suggested by a piece of American software or what Germans think is the right word in English are hardly what we'd term definitive.

My (admittedly old ) Shorter OED has "Dinner" as "The chief meal of the day, eaten originally, and still by the majority of people, about the middle of the day (cf. Ger. [iMittagessen[/i), but now, by the professional and fashionable classes, usually in the evening; particularly a formally arranged meal of various courses, a repast given publicly in honour of soemone, or to celebrate some event".

If only German students of English would use the OED instead of Langenscheidts, eh ?

But no it doesn't! I'm reasonably fluent in German, but wouldn't really need to be to understand that "lunch" is NOT a literal translation of "mittagessen" - a literal translation would be "mid-day eating" or "mid-day food". Therefore if you choose to "translate" that as "dinner", or "lunch", you are adding precisely nothing to the argument as simply your choice of which English word to use is, obviously, the one you use. It's a purely circular argument. If I translated "mittagessen" from German then it woudl depend on what type-of mid-day eating I had in mind.


In my experience posher people tend to use "lunch" but I am certain that very few adults that work standard hours have their main meal at dinnertime (sorry, mid-day) and so referring to it as "lunch" is both reasonable, and a more accurate description than dinner.

Whereas for a schoolchild having a hot 2 course meal, a "school dinner" is a much better description, as crisps, an apple and a fruit juice in a box would be a "packed lunch", and not at all a "packed dinner", even if at exactly the same time of day.


Interesting, but totally irrelevant, as someone once said. Unless you can explain why your personal experience has greater validity?



You see, you can't do it. The reason you are having to immediately backtrack on your own list is that basically NOBODY would ever have their tea, and then go on to have a proper dinner, with the exception of the minority to whom "tea" means "afternoon tea".

Brunch is also a posh word, nobody in Bradford has brunch. If you want to use the posh lexicon, where are elevenses?

Hang on hang on hang on, you have NEVER quizzed every German you have ever spoken to on how they personally translate those words, so stop fibbing! Why on earth would you ever have done such a bizarre thing?

I do find though that practically all Germans I have spoken to who've learned English as opposed to American, have been polluted by posh southern jessy English anyway, so it's hardly a surprise if their efforts amount to trying to talk a bit posh, even though it can be very funny listening to their efforts to pronounce their "u"s as "a"s.