So the Government thinks that GP's are capable of handling 90 billion pounds in NHS budget, but they aren't qualified to write a sick note? You simply could not make this up.
What is all this guff about patient power, letting GP's take responsibility for treating their patients not beurocrats etc, etc, etc, etc.

What is amusing, or would be if it wasn't so tragic, is the number of people I've seen or heard comment along the lines of: "if I'd know this <insert any one of many policies> was going to happen, I'd never have voted for them".

Put it down to bloody-mindedness, blindness, stupidity or whatever. Many who voted will never have known a previous conservative administration, others voted LibDem and suddenly find that their nice incumbent MP has morphed into a Tebbit attack-dog and still others obviously really believed what Cameron was telling them.

I do think a benevolent dictatorship would be far preferrable to the sham of democracy we currently enjoy.

"University degree courses should be sliced in half to 18 months because, for most students, there is too much time wasted"
ie he doesn't know much of the tiime is in research and studying: lectures are only one form of how a subject is learned.
Also many of our competitors state that out degrees are not worth as much as we do not give the student enough years: compare the time to get a degree in Germany with that in the UK.

"His own research, he says, shows that at least 20 per cent of the working population would like to work part-time, or be more flexible"
I live in a town where the mean wage is £16000 (according to all research I have read) : the unemployment is high because there is no work. Even the McDonalds have left. Employers cannot offer more than basic wage for warehouse work. I think 20% of the working population would like work.

As for sick notes: interesting we pay GPs huge salaries and expect them to train for 6+ years but they cannot say someone is sick!

Anyone who has not already done so, may I suggest that you read the conservativehealth and conservativehome links that CM provided in his OP, they're a real hoot. Two right-wing GPs who appear to want money throwing at them for nowt.

I've been on the other side of the sick note experience quite often and whilst I've been exposed to what people would probably refer to as "people who take the " pretty much all situations are manageable from a company point of view. At times though I have experienced notes and reports from doctors that are wishy washy to say the least which isn't really good enough for somebody who is paid £90k a year (if that's supposed to be part of their role which at the moment it is).

I would guess the bigger problem is in the public sector where all sorts of problems can reduce the effectiveness of managing absence e.g. inexperienced personnel, managers dodging the subject and of course employees who have no interest in working.

Having somebody independent to carry out medical assessments is what most big companies will be doing anyway i.e. they should have their own processes and occupational health providers to do this sort of thing. So it does go on already in the private sector, although an employer currently still requires a GP to sign an employee back if the independent report states the employee is fine for a return to work.

Perhaps the sick notes/reports are "wishy-washy" to protect patient confidentiality.

I was in one company's office when an employee, who had been on sick for some time came in with his latest sick-note. He handed it over to his boss and was shocked when he was welcomed back to work and told to get his overalls on. "But I've got a sick note", he said. It was then suggested that he read what the doctor had written under "nature of illness" - "Industrial debility" - basically "tired of work". He got his ovvies on and cracked on with it

There are times when that may be the case, however I think in most instances it is preferable for the employee to be as open with their employer as they can be so that the company can support them e.g. stress. I can't think of too many situations where this wouldn't be beneficial and I've dealt with all sorts including cancer and HIV.

With regards to reports the employee can see reports before they go back to the company, however a company can only make its decisions based upon the information it is given. If an employee doesn't disclose something then how can the company make allowances for it and support them?

Unfortunately not all companies are like this but even belligerent mangers can settle into a supportive role if they are coached correctly themselves.

People being singed off on long term sick is clearly a serious and mounting problem

Hang on – you mean that it fell during Labour's time in office?

That can't possibly be correct.

I put it down to fire precautions getting better.

Yes, because although the absolute numbers went up the percentage went down because Labour allowed the country to be swamped by immigrants!

I heard yesterday, on the telly (so it must be right!) the comment that the immigration regulations were loosened some years before 1997.

Does anyone remember that?

I see we had a spike in 2009, sorry about that, I was poorly.

Between the 1991 census and the 2001 census, the percentage of the UK population born overseas rose by around 1 percentage point, from 7% to 8%. Unless you're suggesting there was a significant fall between 1991 and 1997, that's hardly indicative of a huge spike in immigration under the first four years of the Labour government.

The total population has only gone up by about half a million in that time.

As well as your answer, may we have your workings-out please?

In point of fact, the absolute numbers went down by 347,130 between 1997 and 2010, as well as a percentage decline.

So that pretty much exposes Dally (and his agenda). No doubt he'll now claim it was some sort of joke.

I would guess that increased attention to health and safety has contributed positively to decreasing incidents of long-term sick. In each of my last three organisations they made dramatic inroads into reducing LTS by taking H&S more seriously which is something to be considered when people say "Health and safety gone mad". Also trade unions have contributed significantly in this area too.

The exclamation mark suggests it was!

Would that make it a sick joke?

Don't say that – you can't praise trades unions on here, mate. Sal Paradise and friends will tell you that they're to blame for everything.

Just to add on the H&S issue. I used to work for Danone and although where I worked in the UK was some way behind what I would call really effective H&S management (the likes seen at companies like Heinz) it was already considerably better than Danone who are a global company which, until a couple of years ago, did not have any manufacturing facilities in the UK. Just before I left (as did the H&S Manager himself) they were talking about getting our H&S Manager more involved with European operations so that the company could improve itself in this area.

UK Health & Safety may impact negatively on some issues here, however we should not forget that we are a world leader in this area (especially in issues of food hygiene) and should be proud, not hateful, towards those that do contribute positively to our lives, often in ways which we don't always see.

I suppose on this particular thread it would!

I've never come across an excalamation mark denoting humour before.
Silly me.



Oh, I'd better explain ...my wink smiley there just denotes that I'm going for a cup of tea, OK?

I thought it denoted that you were going for a wink.
As the aristocracy might say.