Look! Over there!

Let's talk about anything other than Russia invading Ukraine!

Has Sir Kier Starmer gone completely bonkers or are the blue bits on here Russian expansionism



[urlhttps://www.google.com/search?source=univ&tbm=isch&q=nato+expansion+map&fir=ORexSTy4F6yiSM%252Cu06TvJL22Ndj0M%252C_%253Bv6EQEbzBRZVX5M%252Cu06TvJL22Ndj0M%252C_%253BsKuatZ59xApxaM%252CasDi80Ddr4lmZM%252C_%253BbhpDSR4cshKAXM%252CxE1DIPJPYvoW2M%252C_%253BriYiiPYFEetqQM%252CdvaWh0rnysVhUM%252C_%253BjdXi6LFfUzSMVM%252CAvB8xvP27uBiIM%252C_%253B0EUOgzz5rd9O4M%252Cu06TvJL22Ndj0M%252C_&usg=AI4_-kQ8rE_Rj2KZPzTY9kzxeK3WAw-OnA&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjgr4SX76z2AhW0gVwKHbFNDJMQ420oAHoECAkQBA&biw=1024&bih=666&dpr=2#imgrc=ZDyoxSRSbgeHrM[/url

Baghdad illegal shock and awe razing 2003, by America and U.K., this is just 7 mins of it, thousands of brown skinned people murdered by western hypocrites



[urlhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0yr-LaMhvro[/url

No outrage

Cognitive dissonance is strong with this tankie.

No outrage? Millions of people all over the country protested it, and Labour have never really been able to fully regain public trust because of it.

Again, what does that have to do with Ukraine? They weren't even involved in the Iraq war. Are you suggesting Putin's invasion of Iraq is justified because America invaded Iraq?

Correct. Just one March had over 1million people and we held an inquiry into the war that found it to be illegal. Russia on the other hand have passed the new law through parliament that would make it illegal to say anything negative about the unprovoked and illegal invasion of Ukraine.

Still the Russia today, Farage addled fifth columnists won’t have it and still think they’re patriots.

- before anyone mentions brexit it’s nothing to do with it. I’m talking about farage’s support for Putin even describing him as “the world leader I admire most”. After he’d poisoned one of his critics in London with polonium and killed two Brits with Novichok in Salisbury.

Just a little snapshot for the people who laughably and ignorantly claim the UK has been taking a leading role in dealing this crisis. This alone sums up why the UK is increasingly marginalised and voiceless on the world stage - we have less influence because of Brexit and we have less credibility because the people currently running the country have lined their pockets with roubles for decades now - and everyone else in the world knows it. https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/ ... bp24yGRCUg

Just a little snapshot for the people who laughably and ignorantly claim the UK has been taking a leading role in dealing this crisis. This alone sums up why the UK is increasingly marginalised and voiceless on the world stage - we have less influence because of Brexit and we have less credibility because the people currently running the country have lined their pockets with roubles for decades now - and everyone else in the world knows it. https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/ ... bp24yGRCUg

Quote ="The Ghost of '99"Just a little snapshot for the people who laughably and ignorantly claim the UK has been taking a leading role in dealing this crisis. This alone sums up why the UK is increasingly marginalised and voiceless on the world stage - we have less influence because of Brexit and we have less credibility because the people currently running the country have lined their pockets with roubles for decades now - and everyone else in the world knows it. https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/ ... bp24yGRCUg'" Given that the European Union is made up of 27 different Countries it's hardly surprising they have taken the leading roll in sanctioning the Russians, also on the list is the second and third biggest countries in the world Canada and the USA, as well as Australia the 6th biggest biggest country, do you genuinely believe we as a nation can compete with these countries, or is your chart in place specifically to make the country look bad.

Quote ="The Ghost of '99"Just a little snapshot for the people who laughably and ignorantly claim the UK has been taking a leading role in dealing this crisis. This alone sums up why the UK is increasingly marginalised and voiceless on the world stage - we have less influence because of Brexit and we have less credibility because the people currently running the country have lined their pockets with roubles for decades now - and everyone else in the world knows it. https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/ ... bp24yGRCUg'" Given that the European Union is made up of 27 different Countries it's hardly surprising they have taken the leading roll in sanctioning the Russians, also on the list is the second and third biggest countries in the world Canada and the USA, as well as Australia the 6th biggest biggest country, do you genuinely believe we as a nation can compete with these countries, or is your chart in place specifically to make the country look bad.

The Russian government deny targeting civilians yet there is an inexhaustible supply of verified video footage of them doing just that. Yet, traitors continue to complain that shutting out Russian state propaganda is an attack on free speech and denies them the “truth”. They want locking up in internment camps.

Are you seriously suggesting that the size of a country makes any difference to whether you apply sanctions or not? Why are Australia and Canada, with much smaller populations, so high on the chart by this silly metric?

It's also incomprehensible to suggest that anyone is "competing" to impose sanctions. It's either something you do, because it's the right thing to do, or something you don't do.

And if you're a weak, compromised government of a country which has become reliant on Russian money and whose standing is already massively eroded then perhaps that explains the UK's embarrassing, and internationally ridiculed, lack of action.

I do note you acknowledge the power of the noticably united EU coming together as one of the leading voices in this. At least that bit, and how important the EU is in maintaining peace and stability and influence, finally seems to be sinking in.

Wind-up, yeah?



I know you know that isn’t how numbers work.

Tbf, I want to be careful about giving the tweeted data to much credence without looking into it further, but if we take it at face value the land mass of Canada and Australia isn’t very relevant. I also assume they’re not counting each EU-sanctioned entity 27 times (if they are, that is dumb - 490 isn’t divisible by 27, I just checked).

Quote ="The Ghost of '99"Just a little snapshot for the people who laughably and ignorantly claim the UK has been taking a leading role in dealing this crisis. This alone sums up why the UK is increasingly marginalised and voiceless on the world stage - we have less influence because of Brexit and we have less credibility because the people currently running the country have lined their pockets with roubles for decades now - and everyone else in the world knows it. https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/ ... bp24yGRCUg'" Didn't Bloomberg remove this chart within 48 hours as it"inaccurately described UK sanctions" ?

Quote ="The Ghost of '99"Just a little snapshot for the people who laughably and ignorantly claim the UK has been taking a leading role in dealing this crisis. This alone sums up why the UK is increasingly marginalised and voiceless on the world stage - we have less influence because of Brexit and we have less credibility because the people currently running the country have lined their pockets with roubles for decades now - and everyone else in the world knows it. https://twitter.com/DaveKeating/status/ ... bp24yGRCUg'" Didn't Bloomberg remove this chart within 48 hours as it"inaccurately described UK sanctions" ?

The UK figure does look low compared with info included in this earlier Bloomberg report. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... eu-and-u-k Edit: still chucks up that same graphic with the link for some reason though.

The UK figure does look low compared with info included in this earlier Bloomberg report. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... eu-and-u-k Edit: still chucks up that same graphic with the link for some reason though.

Of course the uk is behind the curve when it comes to sanctions because you know, Boris the buffoon and his mates have been taking backhanders from Russia for Years. They don’t want to rock the gravy train, even when innocent kids are dying. It’s not different to the tories selling arms that are used to kill innocent people in Yemen. It’s all about the money!

Quote ="TheWarringtonWolve69"Of course the uk is behind the curve when it comes to sanctions because you know, Boris the buffoon and his mates have been taking backhanders from Russia for Years. They don’t want to rock the gravy train, even when innocent kids are dying. It’s not different to the tories selling arms that are used to kill innocent people in Yemen. It’s all about the money!'" It is all about the money, but this isn't and hasn't just been a Tory problem. https://gsdrc.org/document-library/the- ... s-exports/ https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 07793.html

Quote ="TheWarringtonWolve69"Of course the uk is behind the curve when it comes to sanctions because you know, Boris the buffoon and his mates have been taking backhanders from Russia for Years. They don’t want to rock the gravy train, even when innocent kids are dying. It’s not different to the tories selling arms that are used to kill innocent people in Yemen. It’s all about the money!'" It is all about the money, but this isn't and hasn't just been a Tory problem. https://gsdrc.org/document-library/the- ... s-exports/ https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 07793.html

I think this demonstrates one of my biggest fears about this government. That the new poop gets stirred in with the old poop and then normalised as all ‘just poop’. That the degradation and corruption of our already imperfect politics becomes permanent or even that merely reverting to only the old failings looks like progress. There is an urgent need for Johnson’s style of politics and method of government to fail and be seen to fail, to borrow a phrase he has himself been using.

I worry about the perception of politics in this country, and the effort that goes into us all abandoning any sense of hope or optimism for any decency. For example, the sinister lie that has been sold to the masses is "they are all as bad as each other". Its a deliberate ploy to cover up appalling behaviour and its swallowed by millions in this country. It's an absolute fiction and really quite cunning. It does one of two things. Firstly you can shut down a debate or derail it by saying the line. Its meaningless and fictional but it's fantastic at stopping a conversation that isn't going how you'd like. Secondly it leads to widespread apathy about attempting change. After all, why bother seeking change when x, y and z parties are "just as bad".

I think people look to the “they are all the same” to cover up their own embarrassment at believing the incumbent party.

Presumably your just generalising, your spot on though when you say all the parties are just as bad, as for certain individuals on here they cover up they're appalling behaviour at trying unsuccessfully to get a point across by using the same old ploy of using insults, is it really that important?

You missed the point. It's a lie that they are all as bad as each other.

This government is the most corrupted, most cynical, most deceitful, most incompetent, most unsuited to high office of any in my lifetime. The cabinet of no talents is packed full of morons and chancers. To claim that we can't do better than this is simply untrue. Every other government we've had has been better than this.

Don't think I've missed any point, there's part of the post I responded to, are you saying he's got it wrong too?
the other part of your quote is something of a bold statement to make, it's obviously based on experience but even so every other government we've had has been better than this, you've either got a very good memory or your trying to bluff your way through again

Yeah - you;ve completely got it wrong

Read it again
The OP is saying that the biggest Lie/Myth is that they are all as bad as each other - When they're not
And the consequences of that being that it stifles conversations/debate as those people who believe it think everyone "Is just as bad" when they're not

“Their”

Sanctions should be applied by the stronger more powerful nations and given the amount of Russian cash swilling around London, the UK should be higher on the list.
Mind you, as you rightly point out, "The EU" as a collective are always going to be higher up the list.
It would be more interesting to have say France and Germany listed independently as we would usually want to be "competing" with them.

On a side issue, it seem like The Tories are once again exaggerating (lying) about the UK "leading the world" over Ukraine.
Even for lyin' Boris, this is right up there with his "best" lies.

The UK's efforts over taking in displaced Ukrainians is absolutely disgraceful and they appear to be being treated only marginally better than those coming over in small boats.

They took great pleasure in suggesting that refugees could now apply for a visa on line. It's a long way from the proper welcome that these people are receiving elsewhere.

Not quite sure about this, but I would have thought that the Russian cash swilling around London would belong to the Russians, and where as I'm as sure as I can be that some will be going to places it should not be, I doubt these oligarchs have got what they have by giving it away as substantially as you are implying.
With regards to the way the Ukrainian refugees have been treated I can understand to a point the need for the UK to be careful in their screening of these people regarding security, having said that the government are quick to point out they've done this that and tuther, and we were the first to introduce this and that yet shamefully can't get they're finger out and join the rest of the other countries when it comes to the humanitarian side of things, utterly disgraceful.

They point out what they have done but unfortunately on further investigation these statements turn out to be not the truth.