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| Quote ="wrencat1873"Brexit appeared to validate certain right wing views, especially as the issue was primarily centred around immigration.
However, racism accross society exists in every sport in every country of the world.
Also, social media seems to allow anyone to post something, without any fear of consequence, which does "allow" extremists room to breath.
To counter this. Anything posted on social media is an opinion of one person (age and personality unknown) and there must be occasions where certain people ate "dropping a pebble into the pool", just to watch the ripples, rather than necessarily wanting to promote a certain viewpoint.
However, serious action is taken against people for posting hate / racist messages, it will continue.'"
Whilst I agree with most of what you say, I disagree that Brexit was centred around immigration. There were lots of reasons people voted to leave the EU and Freedom of movement (not immigration) was just one of them, this country needs immigration that their is no doubt.
Racism does exist in every sport, however, I must say I very rarely if ever come across it in our game.
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| Quote ="POSTL"Edited and warned for personal abuse Durham Giant'"
Oh well, no point me applying for a moderators post then.
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| Quote ="Call Me God"Wasn't sure if I'd post this here or on the VT, but here is probably better.
Reading a number of threads on RL forums, I have seen an increased right wing rhetoric, that I didn't think existed in the game.
To be clear.....this isn't a racist attitude, but more of a jingoistic one........
Question is. Is England (not Britain) becoming more insular'"
In what way do you think that England is becoming more insular, we are a multi racial society, but. I don't think we are an integrated society, but that's not just the English.
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| I’d say the whole world is seeing a rise in the far right and it’s an equal and opposite reaction to the rise in the far left. Political correctness and forced multiculturalism have been the catalyst for the rise in right wing views.
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| Quote ="POSTL"Whilst I agree with most of what you say, I disagree that Brexit was centred around immigration. There were lots of reasons people voted to leave the EU and Freedom of movement (not immigration) was just one of them, this country needs immigration that their is no doubt.
Racism does exist in every sport, however, I must say I very rarely if ever come across it in our game.'"
Oh, come on, the whole Brexit remit was to reduce immigration and control our own borders.
By dispensing with freedom of movement, necessarily, immigration (and emigration, at least from the EU nations, will reduce.
Of course, the irony in this is that, immigration will increase from outside the EU and some of those driving the anti EU agenda are massively in favour of this, for a whole host of reasons.
However, immigration was THE no 1 issue in the referendum and to pretend otherwise is somewhat misguided.
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| Quote ="post"Political correctness and forced multiculturalism have been the catalyst for the rise in right wing views.'"
Complete rubbish. The parts of the country that are the least diversified, the least multicultural and have the lowest immigration were most in favour of Brexit, for example many costal towns. Where as the areas with the most immigration and that are the most multicultural, such as London were in favour of remaining in the EU.
You could perhaps say a fear of multiculturalism, stoked up by that hypocrite and German passport holder Nigel Farage. However I still don’t believe this to be true. It is a rise in poverty and inequality that has seen the far right gain in popularity. Sadly they give people a scapegoat for the dire situation they find themselves in and too many people go for it.
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| Quote ="Sir Kevin Sinfield"Complete rubbish. The parts of the country that are the least diversified, the least multicultural and have the lowest immigration were most in favour of Brexit, for example many costal towns. Where as the areas with the most immigration and that are the most multicultural, such as London were in favour of remaining in the EU.
You could perhaps say a fear of multiculturalism, stoked up by that hypocrite and German passport holder Nigel Farage. However I still don’t believe this to be true. It is a rise in poverty and inequality that has seen the far right gain in popularity. Sadly they give people a scapegoat for the dire situation they find themselves in and too many people go for it.'"
You're almost right.
Scapegoating immigrants s being the cause of many of the country's problems and the anti immigration rhetoric, empowered many closet racists and it was little wonder that was such a huge increase in racial attacks following the referendum.
As for political correctness, of course there is some stuff that is utter nonsense ie blackboards becoming chalk boards etc but, equally, some of the race driven comments that were accepted in the 80, now being off limits are a definite step in the right direction.
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| Quote ="Sir Kevin Sinfield"Sadly they give people a scapegoat for the dire situation they find themselves in and too many people go for it.'"
Bang on the money - the establishment have played a blinder in convincing the people they've been screwing over for the last 10 years, that the reason for their reduced circumstances is immigration; it's straight out of the Tory playbook - divide and conquer - so that where working class British, Polish and Romanians should be in solidarity, they're actually pitted against each other.
We fall for it every time, thanks in large part to a print media that is owned by non-dom billionaire's with a right wing agenda, and a virtually state-controlled BBC, thanks to a creeping campaign of Tory installed senior officers.
We've been had.
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| A lot of the left wing rhetoric on here is straight out of the left wing play book. On the same lines as only poor thick people don’t like foreigners and immigrants get the blame because of this.
I’d recommend watching a few Jordan Peterson, Peter Hitchens and Christopher Hitchens videos to enlighten or red pill some of you.
To say the most diverse places voted to remain is an outright LIE! Boston, the highest voting leave area at 75% leave is probably the most European driven diverse place in the Country. How do you answer that?
And please don’t bring London into the equation, London is it’s own entity.
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| Quote ="post"I’d recommend watching a few Jordan Peterson, Peter Hitchens and Christopher Hitchens videos to enlighten or red pill some of you.'"
Christopher Hitchens is turning in his grave at being included on that list; he would have eviscerated Jordan Peterson, the same way he did his own significantly less intelligent and talented brother.
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| In my opinion it’s economic difficulties that have caused increased extremism to both left and right wing parties. The global recession was the cause. That’s the single shared circumstance across all countries.
The effects of that recession have been disastrous. As was the case in the 1930s people that are forced into poverty can reject politics of the centre as the reason they’re in this mess and become more susceptible to populists who provide easy answers.
We all saw where that led.
Unfortunately I can only see increased polarisation coming. Probably even more so after Brexit as the scapegoats of the EU will need replacing with others, probably the poor and the sick.
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| Quote ="Bullseye"In my opinion it’s economic difficulties that have caused increased extremism to both left and right wing parties. '"
It’s funny our right wing non domicile billionaire owned media love to call left wing policy extreme, when in fact a majority of people are in favour of those very policies which are described as extreme.
For example the public strongly support the fundamental socialist principle of public ownership when it comes to police services (96%), schools (93%), the NHS (89%), the Royal Mail (76%), the railways (71%), the water companies (70%), and the energy companies (63%).
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| Quote ="Charlie Sheen"It's been gradually getting worse since the 2008 financial crisis. Nations always become increasingly right wing after an economic shock.'"
Yep.
I think there's an element of focus on certain key floating voters in certain swing seats that have left a lot people disillusioned with centrist politics and drift to the fringes, as well.
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| Quote ="post"
I’d recommend watching a few Jordan Peterson, Peter Hitchens and Christopher Hitchens videos to enlighten or red pill some of you.'"
I think there's a separate issue around populism and polemicism. Whether it is angry middle-aged men on the right, or comedians like Boyle or Lee on the left, they do a decent job of making ideas accessible. However, these are not great thinkers. Boyle is funny though.
I'd recommend reading some books by non-celebrity authors. And avoiding the red pill metaphor. It sounds like you're recruiting to a cult.
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| Quote ="Mild Rover"I think there's a separate issue around populism and polemicism. Whether it is angry middle-aged men on the right, or comedians like Boyle or Lee on the left, they do a decent job of making ideas accessible. However, these are not great thinkers. Boyle is funny though.
I'd recommend reading some books by non-celebrity authors. And avoiding the red pill metaphor. It sounds like you're recruiting to a cult.'"
Two great books absolutely turned me off socialism, I’m sure you’ve read them yourself but 1984 and Animal Farm. If they don’t scare you away from the left and the way in which they are steering us then I don’t know what will.
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| Quote ="post"Two great books absolutely turned me off socialism, I’m sure you’ve read them yourself but 1984 and Animal Farm. If they don’t scare you away from the left and the way in which they are steering us then I don’t know what will.'"
They are George Orwell books, he was a democratic socialist but opposed totalitarianism. The NHS is an example of socialism in action, do you oppose that?
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| Quote ="post"Two great books absolutely turned me off socialism, I’m sure you’ve read them yourself but 1984 and Animal Farm. If they don’t scare you away from the left and the way in which they are steering us then I don’t know what will.'"
They are very fine books. Obviously though, not many on the left are advocating Stalinism, and I don't think resisting or trying to reverse the growth in inequality inevitably leads to it. 1984, I read more as being about totalitarianism generally, it was more of a fascistic dystopia in many ways.
The arguments put forward by Orwell in The Road to Wigan Pier are broadly of the left.
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| Quote ="wrencat1873"Oh, come on, the whole Brexit remit was to reduce immigration and control our own borders.
By dispensing with freedom of movement, necessarily, immigration (and emigration, at least from the EU nations, will reduce.
Of course, the irony in this is that, immigration will increase from outside the EU and some of those driving the anti EU agenda are massively in favour of this, for a whole host of reasons.
However, immigration was THE no 1 issue in the referendum and to pretend otherwise is somewhat misguided.'"
I wasn't going to reply to this as this post is not about Brexit and certainly my reply's have mostly included Brexit and therefore, would like to apologise to the original poster.
However, with respect to you and your post. I'm not sure the whole Brexit remit was about immigration, As the main slogan from the Official Leave campaign which many remain voters love reminding me of was the slogan on the Big Red Bus which was about the amount of money we sent weekly to the EU.
Certainly controlling our own borders with regards the EU and ending freedom of movement was a big part of the referendum result. I'm not sure why you say that immigration WILL increase from outside the EU as a result, the only possible reasons this would happen surely is because, people from the EU would not want to come here, then so be it, or if people from outside the EU would be better suited to what is on offer then again I say so be it.
Most of what I do post are my opinions as most of us don't actually know what will happen if we actually do leave the EU and by that fact you could be right in some of what you say. But in contrast reading your post, you do seem to know what is going to happen.
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| Quote ="POSTL"I'm not sure why you say that immigration WILL increase from outside the EU as a result, the only possible reasons this would happen surely is because, people from the EU would not want to come here, then so be it, or if people from outside the EU would be better suited to what is on offer then again I say so be it.'"
It has been already - and it will do so even more post-Brexit, because those countries that some charlatans have claimed will give us the easiest trade deals in history, will want one very important thing in return - visas.
There's an irony in that whilst Nigel successfully conflated non-EU migration with EU-migration as part of his racist campaign to get people to vote Leave - the very people who responded to that (racists) will see an influx of brown people post-Brexit; the very people they wanted rid of in the first place, but which Brexit was never going to achieve.
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| Quote ="bren2k"It has been already - and it will do so even more post-Brexit, because those countries that some charlatans have claimed will give us the easiest trade deals in history, will want one very important thing in return - visas.
There's an irony in that whilst Nigel successfully conflated non-EU migration with EU-migration as part of his racist campaign to get people to vote Leave - the very people who responded to that (racists) will see an influx of brown people post-Brexit; the very people they wanted rid of in the first place, but which Brexit was never going to achieve.'"
I can't in all honestly disagree with what you say especially with the people likely to be negotiating these trade deals, however, with regards to this, what is to say we won't give priority to EU citizens in part of some sort of trade deal negotiations, however, this would not stop what you refer to which I believe has happened in the past. but lets hope not.
I assume your second point is referring to the poster which was put out by Farage showing the long line of what looked like poor refugees and unlike EU citizens would stand little or no chance of getting into this country. Absolutely agree, disgraceful.
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| Quote ="Sir Kevin Sinfield"They are George Orwell books, he was a democratic socialist but opposed totalitarianism. The NHS is an example of socialism in action, do you oppose that?'"
No, not at all but it does get taken advantage of. I see it first hand with Pakistanis coming over settling for renal dialysis, Americans with diabetes, Africans with TB, Columbians having babies etc. We shouldn’t be the worlds hospital.
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| Quote ="post"No, not at all but it does get taken advantage of. I see it first hand with Pakistanis coming over settling for renal dialysis, Americans with diabetes, Africans with TB, Columbians having babies etc. We shouldn’t be the worlds hospital.'"
Totally agree. No NI contributions no treatment.
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| Quote ="post"No, not at all but it does get taken advantage of. I see it first hand with Pakistanis coming over settling for renal dialysis, Americans with diabetes, Africans with TB, Columbians having babies etc. We shouldn’t be the worlds hospital.'"
May I ask how you see this first hand?
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| It's a drop in the ocean and administering getting the money back costs almost as much. It'll be even more admin after no deal and we have to charge EU citizens. Just what we need in the NHS - more admin!
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| Quote ="post"No, not at all but it does get taken advantage of. I see it first hand with Pakistanis coming over settling for renal dialysis, Americans with diabetes, Africans with TB, Columbians having babies etc. We shouldn’t be the worlds hospital.'"
This really isn’t an issue and very rare, thought to cost £110M from the £134,000M budget or 0.08% of the nhs budget.
Also remember when we are abroad in the EU we can get medical treatment to the same level as that countries nationals. 785,000 British people living in Spain, the majority of who are pensioners get healthcare in Spain for free and at no cost to the nhs or British taxpayer.
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