For anyone who may have missed it, may I suggest watching John Pilger's excellent documentary [url=https://www.itv.com/itvplayer/search/term/utopiaUtopia[/url on ITV player.

The Australian reporter goes back to his homeland to document the continuin plight of the First Australians. Even now, some of the attitudes and actions towards the Aborigine bear more than a passing resemblance to apartheid South Africa

[size=30Dons tin hat and awaits incoming from our Antipodean contributors[/size

Indeed. In "The Real World" you just claim that, err, homecare workers have expense accounts etc and that anyone who disagrees with me is banished from the forums. Oh, but you're still here. Now how did that happen? Could it be paranoid waffle on your part?



What "original question"? You came on, backing up Rumples, and claiming that it was "an interesting question" about "tribal violence" in Africa. You didn't pose any question about it.



Really, you should learn to read. If someone is going to start a 'the rest of Africa is so bad, therefore ...' theme, then the same theme could be applied to any other continent.

However, the same people who posit that argument seem remarkably reluctant to do that.

Nobody has said that the topic is "off limits". Personally, I have responded – quite clearly – in pointing out that, if someone is going to start with the 'Africa is just so violent' type of argument, then the same can be applied to any other continent.

Nobody – yourself included – has been able to rebut that. Yet you persist in pretending that one continent can be seen in isolation, when the worst behaviour is not worse than behaviours and actions that have been seen historically in all other continents, and not that long ago.

The genocide of Rwanda was horrific. But was it somehow worse than the Holocaust? Or what happened in Cambodia? In those situations, tribalism was not the cause, was it? So is tribalism the problem – or something else?

And if the Holocaust was so bad, would that mean that those countries where it took place and where citizens participated in it should be subsequently denied democracy and equality etc?

If not, then what different conditions are you applying to Africa and to African nations, and why?

And I'm not 'chairing a thread', FFS.



And you seem to be misunderstanding that I did not raise that comparison – other people did and you have picked up on elements of the same 'argument' ('he raises an interesting question').



Ah. So they should have just waited patiently, let the state murders continue and just bred away. Okay, got you now.



I haven't said it did. I have said that the armed struggle [icontributed[/i to the eventual change, along with other things.



Ask the Chinese.



I am aware of the state of the country. I have family living there – who have lived there since the 1960s.

As I mentioned earlier, I have done things myself such as travel in combis – entirely safely (and my mother in law has done the same for years) – though the reactions of her neighbours and friends is one of shock and a conviction that she (I) will be murdered brutally and probably raped as well. This in spite of their knowing nobody that such a thing has happened to.

Jo'burg is a mess and I wouldn't visit, personally, unless I was going to be going around with contacts. But there are parts of London I wouldn't toddle around on my own either.

There are serious issues of crime. There are also still serious economic issues. Much progress has been halted because of the edicts and demands of the unelected, unaccountable World Bank, IMF etc (a story repeated across the developing world: 'Oh no – you can't let poor people have free water: it has to be privatised so someone can make money from it' is a snapshot of a situation that occurs all over the place). In the first years after the end of apartheid, housing programmes were a key component of government policy, but as subsequent governments took office they fell more and more into abiding by the demands of neo-liberalism (World Bank, IMF etc).

So I repeat: the idea that the current situation is so, so bad that the question can be asked as to whether the end of apartheid was such a good thing leaves an impression of not considering it as necessary that democracy, equality and equality of opportunity should be for all if you are going to build a healthy society.

No I missed it... whilst reading it on a bus. No doubt that makes me "stupid"

You really are a truly fascinating human being. The level of arrogance, the belittling of others, the need to call people names, the need to correct people's spelling, despite not noticing his own, the need to continually say how "stupid" others are, compared to yourself.

Yet why? Because they say something you don't like? Have a different opinion to you? Have a different political opinion to you?

Your behaviour is exactly the same as the fascist bully boys you despise, yet you can't recognise that. So you behave like others who you call stupid. I love the irony in that.

I share several of your opinions, political or otherwise. So maybe I am stupid after all.

Though I'm not some northern monkey, who left the North because it was that good, a champagne (or peri in your case) socialist who is a nobody, or someone who was told by his mum or father how stupid he was on many occasions growing up. See, anyone can chuck shıt around. It just makes one look stupid.

Congratulations.

Anything to add to the debate?

If adding to the debate is "That doesn't just suggest you are a racist, it suggests you are stupid as well". Then I'm sure people could contribute.

Happy Christmas to you cod'ead.

He doesn't need to add much more - in one post he has exposed you for what you really are.

Now perhaps you should take a serious look in your mirror and ask why somebody would not only think that about you but would actually take the time to type it?

Because they're a rather strange amateur psychologist?

I called you out for making a blatantly racist statement and all you can do is hide behind the skirts of someone else?

No I didn't and your inability to read is duly noted - perhaps your arrogance got the better of you once again.

When it comes to a penis-heads like you I don't need to hide behind anyone!!

Now go away and have a look in the mirror and come back when you have grown up a little

However you want to dress it up, you slurred a whole group of people based on race.

You are a racist

Where did I do that - commenting on what factually happened in Rwanda makes me a racist? dress it up however you want you really are an idiot.

Perhaps he's just another one of Sal's [ireal worldies[/i?

Hold on a mo Sal.

I just get tired of people name calling or instant labelling. I agree with a fair chunk of what Cod'ead says, it's just at times it can be written in a condescending way or from an arrogant perspective of superiority. There are a few people like him who are clearly highly intelligent people, which makes it more confusing for me to understand why they take the route of telling people they're "stupid" "dumb" "simple" and name calling, rather than saying "I think you're wrong"

The fact you chose to call Cod'ead a penıs head, is completely unnecessary, don't you think?

No I don't - he called me a racist - completely unfounded allegation. He gets what he deserves IMO.

He is typical of the lefty chattering classes on here - you cannot criticise anything that involves a non-white person without being labelled a racist, its pathetic. Anybody with a right wing leaning is a Neo-Liberal!! Everything that is wrong with the world stems from the tea-party stuff in the USA - bizarre given we have a mixed economy here with a significant element of central control. They all gang together - perceived gravitas by association - and in the end they kill the debate most threads on here are dominated by HIM, Mintball, Graham, Mr Fish, FA, Wiz all of which have a very similar outlook on matters. The fun is to prod a stick at such entrenched thought processes and stir up the hornet's nest.

Another of Mintball's lemmings!!

If by that you are alluding to the popular misconception of the [iLemmus lemmus[/i I would advise you to, once again, do a littte more research Sal.
It will possibly negate you looking so silly.

No, he's Bobo, Mintballs pet Chimp.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

The average [iPan paniscus[/i IQ would comfortably outweigh anything you could probably muster so I'm comfortable with your analogy.
Is it cos they is black that you are being derogatory?

Profound as usual.

Shhh Bobo

You could be Sals chimp but he'd more than likely be embarrassed.
You can be his biatch instead daft lad.

As I have quite clearly stated, I'm not sure that you are a racist, but picking up and running with a racist argument doesn't help you.

To suggest that all those nasty kaffirs are so bad that maybe it was better when they were still kept in their place – which you did – is not actually going to convince people that you are not personally a racist. It's not an intelligent 'argument'.

And it's sophistry to play the line of: 'oh, those Africans are all so bad, blah, blah' – an argument that you decided to suggest was interesting – when the same accusations can be laid at every other continent on planet Earth.

I raised all this, entirely politely, and you have made not a single effort to respond properly beyond another boring martyrdom routine.

There's also a certain irony, since you're one (not the only one, but are one among a number) who harp on about 'socialists' and 'supposed socialists' (TM) etc, regardless of whether the individual concerned regards themselves as a socialist or not: that you're now crying about comparable behaviour either indicates an extraordinary lack of awareness or simply double standards.



I very much doubt that you understand what neo-liberalism is (it's not a proper noun for starters).



I'm not sure whether this is more pathetic or just farcical.

On the Domino's thread you pointed out that bullying behaviour happens in other workplaces and situations, and admitted that you can let fly if things go wrong at your place of work.

And yet here you are whinging like a spoiled little brat about people 'ganging up on you'.

What you actually mean is that more than one person has dared to disagree with you and to challenge your posts and since you haven't got a concrete response to the actual points raised (see above) you need to claim it's all unfair etc etc ad nauseum.

That's not 'ganging up' – but then, you recently claimed that anyone who 'challenges' me gets banned, which either means that you're succinctly unchallenging, by your own definition, or you were simply making another paranoid claim that has no foundation in reality.

You just couldn't help yourself.