Cameron has served his purpose in preventing any kind of substantive reform of the banking sector in the wake of sub-prime as well as ensuring the average British tax-payer coughed up more than his fair share.

His only major blunder was in failing to provide support for US combat operations in Syria. And that cost him big.

Now his job is to chain himself to the EU and appear as unappealing as possible so that a man on a white horse (such as the likes of Boris) can ride in and save the day. From then on he's a lame duck and it won't be long before he's quietly packed off to enjoy the fruits of his labour.

Like all former Prime Ministers (which the possible exception of Blair) it will be as though he never existed. One or two appearances on the back bench - a handful of carefully edited interviews - maybe.

Well said.

If we were to stay in the EU it isn't going to 'remain' the way it is now. Right from the start it was set up as an organisation to facilitate a European super-state. If we stay our national power will only be diminished further. The whole concept is based around Richard von Coudenhove-Kalergi's work Pan-Europa which called for mass immigration into Europe which would lessen ideas of national and cultural identity and bring cheap labour for large corporations.

After all the mind-churning, tit-for-tat, meaningless argy-bargy that has been served up by the two camps, I would recommend any undecideds and brexiters to read the most sensible and reasoned opinion piece yet, on the front page of today's Guardian. The author is none other than Delia Smith.

Both the remain and leave campaigns have thoroughly and consistently lied through their teeth in this campaign and have been allowed to get away with it by the pi55 poor media in this country.

The BBC are terrified of government and so are simply a repeating station for any government line, the rest I wouldn't trust as far as I could throw Nigel Wood sat on Josh Jones' shoulders.

Of course there wouldn't be war in Europe without the EU or if we left the EU. Nor would the country completely fall apart if we left.
On the other hand neither are those nasty, dirty, devious foreigners taking over or destroying "British culture" (whatever the feck that is). As for losing sovereignty? Well we gave that up to large institutions and the US decades ago. It most certainly wasn't lost to the EU.

The argument is over whether we'd be better off in or out. I can see arguments on both sides but I'm firmly in the remain camp.
If the EU isn't working then fix it.
The days of Empire are over, we can't just send a gunboat in to solve the situation and get what we want anymore. You have to work together with other countries and the way to influence things for the better is to be on the inside of these organisations not on the outside.

The last time I looked at this thread was on my mobile which doesn't have the ad blocker installed. Ironically there was a sponsored advert for the EU referendum from Richard Branson asking us to vote IN. Thanks for that multi-billionaire Richard, you're really on my level and I feel totally connected with you while you send emails from your own private island.

If us minions are going to be told how to vote, please don't take the ing out of us!

The EU is an economic basket case. it is clear we would be better off within a decade. Our GDP is bigger than Russia's and if we put our savings and more from exit into military spending then it would drive innovation and within a decade would be a very powerful nation - behind only USA and China. In a dangerous world that for me is the way to go.
Despite your derision this country is the 5th largest economy in the world even with EU drag. We the impetus of getting out and standing proud Zi believe we could be 3rd within a decade and enter a golden era of prosperity, especially if we stopped importing millions of people on minimum wage and instead the world's best intellects.

Wrong. The whole thing was based around an idea by Churchill and backed by the other Allied leaders in the wake of WWII.

The world has moved on from WWII, I think?

Written in a gin soaked stupour I'd imagine. Delia Smith? Come on! Who's taking her words of wisdom seriously?

You might not recognise it as standing out because you have been immersed in it since birth but we have a rich cultural history stretching back well over 1000 years,

But the point is that that culture is an ever-changing and evolving one. It isn't the same "culture" over all that period, it's been influenced and changed by all sorts of things, especially foreign influences. So there's no reason it should stay exactly the same now. It should evolve and change, otherwise we'd never develop and evolve as a society.

Whether or not the Turks will up sticks and move the moment they get into the EU is unknown. However, it's a certainty once the privately financed death squads and counterinsurgency units pour into that country much in the same way they've done in Libya, Syria, Tunisia etc. Of course, it's just a coincidence that all these nations have been set ablaze roughly at the same time. After all, it's not like mass population migration has ever been used as an effective strategy before....

But not of course for Brtain which was considered above all that.

If undecided then vote out as an out vote is a sure way of getting rid of Cameron and Osborne this summer. Happy days could be here within a month!

If unsure then the logicalconclussion is to vote out.

The EU doesnt want us to leave, so if this out vote isn't beneficial we can always vote to go back in, and they would welcome us with open wallets, we won't get the out vote anytime again in my lifetime.

The region stretching from the NW coast of Africa right across to Turkey, Syria (and possibly Iran) is on the verge of being blown wide open. The people who have invested so much time, effort and resources in this plan aren't going to back out now. When the hammer fully drops (and I reckon this is no more than 18 months down the line - at most) these poor people are going to be running for their very lives.

I don't care how much of a humanitarian you claim you are - the thought of MILLIONS of folk streaming across EU borders in search of the first safe haven which will take them must give you cause for concern.

One thing is for sure - when the hits the fan you can bet anyone who votes to stay will be screaming bloody murder and insistent he was always in favor of Brexit. A bit like those millions of people who voted Tory and now deny doing so.

I wouldn't mind so much if it weren't for the fact that the Owners of this world, via their acolytes (Samuel P. Huntingdon, Kissinger, Zbigniew Brzezinski etc. etc.), tell you decades in advance what their plans are.

People who pooh-pooh this stuff would do well to read [url=https://www.amazon.co.uk/Clash-Civilizations-Remaking-World-Order/dp/074323149XClash of Civilizations And The Remaking of World Order[/url, [url=https://www.amazon.co.uk/Grand-Chessboard-American-Geostrategic-Imperatives/dp/0465027261/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1464610617&sr=1-1&keywords=the+grand+chessboardThe Grand Chessboard And The Remaking of World Order[/url, [url=https://www.amazon.co.uk/Strategic-Vision-America-Crisis-Global-ebook/dp/B006ZOYM9K?ie=UTF8&ref_=asap_bcStrategic Vision: America And The Crisis of Global Power[/url, [url=http://www.amazon.co.uk/World-Order-Reflections-Character-Nations/dp/0141979003/ref=la_B00MC1YV4G_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1464610737&sr=1-1World Order - Reflections On The Character of Nations And The Course Of History[/url etc. etc.

You'd think the number of times the phrase "World Order" appears in the titles of just four books would be a dead giveaway.

So it's not like you people weren't given advance warning. These guys make plans and they stick to them.

Get rid of Cameron & Osborne and end up with Johnson as PM, a cabinet reinforced with brexiters and fixated on immigration, with no effective opposition? No thanks.

What exactly do you mean by a statement like that?

I find your posts very interesting, i'm undecided but perhaps open minded (perhaps is on purpose) but those sort of statements surely make you look a little arrogant, no?

I mean, where ultimately does that leave "us people"?

It could force a GE. As to opposition I thought Corbyn was the answer to most people's dreams on here?

It could force a GE. As to opposition I thought Corbyn was the answer to most people's dreams on here?

The plan (& that's what it is documented as) by the United Nations is to effectively force migration of peoples into the EU. Sovereignty is a myth. knock yourself out www.crossroad.to/articles2/006/migration-un.htm

The plan (& that's what it is documented as) by the United Nations is to effectively force migration of peoples into the EU. Sovereignty is a myth. knock yourself out www.crossroad.to/articles2/006/migration-un.htm

The guys I've mentioned (along with a host of others) are globalists. Whilst they wrap themselves in the flag and hum the national anthem on camera this is nothing more than political pragmatism. A means to an end. These people have no loyalties to any current state or government and the only ideology they respect is the one whereby the weak are dominated by the strong.

The fact that Kissinger, Brzezinski, Richard Pipes etc. all served in senior positions under successive American presidents shouldn't blind people to the fact that they have about as much in common with Democracy and what are perceived to be American "values" as Kim Jong-Un. Kissinger is representative of the German aristocratic class (circa Bismark) and undoubtedly a fascist. Both Brzezinski & Pipes are old-school Tsarists who fled the Bolsheviks and have made it their mission in life to return Russia to what is was under the Tsar.

Given their vested interests they should never have been allowed within the same postcode as Washington - and yet there they have sat for the past fifty years espousing policies which are clearly not in America's best interests. This tells us an awful lot about what politics actually is as opposed to what it is perceived to be.

You have to look at this issue from the perspective of those who Kissinger and company represent - big business. The only entities on the planet which have the resources and muscle to stop them from turning everyone into a Chinese sweatshop employee are governments. Which is why they are doing everything in their power to bring them to their knees.

People forget that back in the days of antiquity one of the reasons folk banded together to form city states was protection. Laws were codified so that the little guy had at least some chance of standing up to the excesses of power.



It's less arrogance than sheer bloody frustration. Eventually you just get fed up with people's inability to see something which is literally staring them in the face (and on the EU question it's been laid down in print for decades!). After years of banging my head against a brick wall I've arrived at a valuable conclusion:

[iPeople don't use facts to shape their understanding of how the world works. They use their understanding of how the world works to shape their facts. [/i

Whenever I say to people,[i "Look, WE are responsible for the waves of terrified immigrants flooding into Europe. WE are behind ISIS, Daesh (whatever ...)."[/i they scratch their heads and say, [i"Why would we do such a crazy thing when it will only harm us?"[/i

The mistake is in thinking the likes of Cameron, Blair etc. equate their interests with ours when anyone can see this isn't the case. When David Cameron steps down as PM he'll receive a pat on the head from his sponsors, a big fat thankyou cheque plus a healthy retainer and he won't give a damn that the country he's left behind is about to slide into the ocean.

As I've stated, almost the entire Mediterranean region is on the verge of falling into anarchy. Those nations we haven't already smashed up are teetering on the precipice. The strategy of creating tension by fomenting mass-migration is as old as the hills. But this current situation bears a striking resemblance to French Indo-China when the Americans forced 1,000,000 North Vietnamese to flee into the South. Within months the entire region was ablaze.



That depends on whether you want to take charge of your life or continue being a victim. And you WILL be a victim because the Kissingers of this world view the lot of us as expendable.

Take Brzezinski and the stuff he was writing back in the 60s and 70s. I haven't got the exact passage to hand (it's been a while since I could stomach wading through his bile) but he basically says ...

[i"People have too much spare time on their hands. With the threat of Soviet Russia diminishing we are going to have to reduce job security, wages etc., dramatically increase the number of distractions or we are going to have major problems retaining control". [/i

And ZB was by no means the only person saying the above. Noam Chomsky goes into great detail on this issue, BTW.

As for the current state of the EU and the issues which have lead to the Brexit question - I see this as one small component of a much bigger strategy which has been on the table certainly as far back as the Bolshevik revolution. I have a couple of brick-thick political journals which were written circa 1914 by some of the world's most famous statesmen and despite one or two differences it's amazing how similar the language and arguments are.

Wrong again. Churchill saw Britain being at the heart of it.