If they publish the figures it will help to support the government's strategy - people especially the young are not taking the lockdown as seriously as they were - we need to understand why the death rate is so high here.

It's so high because we are unwilling to control or track movements of people coming and going to and from the UK and we have a government who have been slow to take action (3 times) and have relaxed the rules too early and they keep on doing the same bloody thing.

They told students to go to Uni (yet now they are told not to return), they told everyone it was ok to have a get together at Christmas and then changed their mind at the last minute, they told everyone to go back to their place of work and yet now, they have decided that it's better for them to work from home.

It's not difficult to see whey the numbers are so high.

The repeating theme is too little, too late again and again and again and lets not even mention our "world beating" test and trace system" - 10's of billions of pounds have been thrown at this and my Gran could have done a better job and she passed away 15 years ago.

But but but! Can you imagine if CORBYN was in charge!

I've always had a strange fascination with schizotypal personality disorder.

Nice twisting of the facts.
Are you suggesting that the vaccine(s) are contributing to the additional deaths or, do you think that the cases and deaths were brought about by increased "mixing" at Christmas and by people, perhaps like yourself, not bothering with social distancing etc.

The apparent deleting of the post you quote makes me look a right pillock!

I mean, I can manage that on my own.

I did agree that it seemed to be implying that the vaccine is making things worse!

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when talking to Bumpy, you need to remember, they tried a brain transplant, but they couldn't't find a chicken willing to swap.

I am not disagreeing with you but we are testing 500k a day - and finding c30k a day positives so if each person has 6 contacts that is c200k to contact and isolate everyday? Even Germany accepted at levels less than this their T&T couldn't cope.

In terms of our border the only real challenge for us a new more infectious version of the virus - the virus is everywhere so people coming into the country aren't bring anything we don't already have. The US locked its borders but it has one of the worst outcome of anywhere. When do you open it up - this isn't NZ or Aus we are a major hub for European travel

Students were in September we still have >1,000 dying everyday, same goes for eat out and return to work. I see how the younger ones behave - they don't have the same conformity ideals and if I were their age I would probably feel the same.

What is tragic is terminal cancer sufferers what a terrible situation they have lived in for the last 12 months - if you had six months to live in October what enjoyment will you have had?

One thing is for sure - nothing would have happened without the unions allowing it - schools would not go back until we had zero Covid. Our vaccines would have gone to the Palestinians - they would have been a priority - Hamas would have been managing the supply chain as Jeremy and John would have cancelled the army. We would still have been in the EU so our vaccination numbers would have been a fraction of where they are.

But on a positive all the prisoners would have been done

The scary thing is you actually believe some of that stuff.

While it is clearly an exaggeration, and I voted Labour at GE, I do think Corbyn would have been pretty terrible as a PM and especially under these circumstances. Not as bad as Johnson in most ways, but his task would have been tougher with much less pliant media coverage.

Some people just aren’t cut out for leadership. For different, even opposite, reasons neither Johnson or Corbyn are. Labour, on a purely political level, may have dodged the bullet that has hit so many parts of society, in so many ways. They still need to get their act together, mind you.

I voted Labour for the first time because it was clear, to me at least, how dangerous Johnson and his party had become. Dangerous because of some of the anti- constitutional stuff they were trying to do, dangerous because they were pandering - more than pandering - to dangerous authoritarian elements and had purged their party of moderates. And we've always known Johnson is a lazy liar who does everything for his own personal advancement.

Corbyn was/is definitely not my cup of tea in lots of ways - although policy wise the Labour platform was the more sensible - but he struck me as a much lower risk than a dangerously extremist, anti-fact, anti-science, nakedly corrupt Tory party. We couldn't have dreamed how important and deadly and costly those that two last points would turn out to be within a matter of weeks.

How have you voted previously ?

I voted Tory this time, generally don’t bother, primarily because of Brexit. I voted remain at the time but felt it was only right to implement what the majority voted for

The scary thing is you actually believe this stuff.

All Johnson tried to do was deliver on a democratic vote - the problem he had was the vast majority of the MPs would stop at nothing to stop it happening and the had a speaker who facilitated that position. He had to try what he could and if the party line is one thing and a host of senior people go against that what was he supposed to do - embrace them? He may well have lost that battle but he certainly won the war and the likes of Grieve are now nowhere to be seen.

I would agree with your last point about Johnson but as Starmer showed yesterday they all have a very loose view of the truth. Corbyn produced a document on the NHS during the election that he claimed showed the Tories were going to sell off the NHS - a complete fabrication.

For Tory donors read trade unions - do you think under Corbyn union laws would not have been changed to give the unions more power?

True, the state of the NHS with underfunding and the pervasion of private companies with no special skills apart from being very good at winning contracts, all with their snouts in the trough show that it isn't something that's going to happen, it already has.

Well any right thinking person would hope so. The massive levels of income disparity and zero hours contracts and millions on near starvation wages propped up by government paying benefits because employers won't pay proper wages is one of the great tragedies of modern Britain. Balancing things back from big business in favour of the poor who work for them is long overdue.

It is indeed tragic, that cancer sufferers and others in need of urgent medical help are having to wait longer or, receiving a less comprehensive level of care, which is all the more reason why Boris & Co should have got a proper grip of things.

Thankfully, the vaccine rollout seems to be the one positive in this and it could eventually start paying dividends.
However the three lockdowns and travel chaos etc, etc all encouraged by Boris, has been truly shocking.

The first major project in this entire period that they've not allowed a private company to manage, instead relying on the core nhs, and it's the first one to not have been a complete disaster. Who'd have thought.

Thank goodness for the private company that tested, manufactured and delivered the product - just think how long it would have taken for a public body to deliver one - horses for courses

All that will happen if you increase wages significantly unemployment will increase in proportion and inflation will go through the roof - companies need to deliver profits that is their rationale - why else take the risk they are not a charity. Minimum wage went up by 6% the last time for a lot of SME's that has simply eroded their profit because they cannot pass on the increases and it has a knock on effect across the rest of the workforce.

On the NHS - most of the abuse is down to the appalling standard of the administrative people especially procurement. Private firms like Nuffield provide a useful service in taking pressure off the NHS and reliving the rich of their savings

Conservative in every general election up to 2010, lib dem in '15 and '17.

The Tories were always a balance between authoritarian and moderates with the adults usually just about in charge.

Unfortunately they have become so extreme and infiltrated by the far right now with moderates literally purged that I don't think there will ever be a place back in the party for me in my lifetime.

Just think of those private companies had now been given 100s of £millions by governments using our taxes we may never have got the vaccines.

Game, set & match



- worth remembering that those companies, although very good at producing vaccines, are driven by profits and they are certainly not producing vaccines for "fun", it's all about the money.

Group 8 - surely we will not be vaccinated for some time - surely the second vaccination for 15m will takes sometime?

What would you expect the main driver for a company to be other than profit ?
Frankly i would be worried if my companies main driver wasn't profit, it certainly wouldn't be employing over 50 people and paying taxes into the HMRC coffers.

Had my first Pfizer vaccine today.

Feeling fine .

Finding my I phone buzzes when I use it and every time I walked by a 5G mask I feel a warm buzz..

My glasses seem to flash up messages for Amazon

I hear voices from my Alexa even when it is turned off

When I hold lightbulbs they light up


I have had several messages from MI5 saying they know where I am

Other than that everything is fine