[size=50Drat, drat, and double drat!

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On this day - 1890

US soldiers massacred the Lakota (mainly unarmed, many women and children) at Wounded Knee.

The indigenous Americans have some great names for places.

They do

Slightly OT - If anyone is looking for a good read, i can thoroughly recommend the book "Bury my heart at Wounded Knee"

A pretty horrific account of how the west was really won

On this day - Saddam Hussein was executed.

Did they ever get a refund from the firm that filmed it? Shocking quality. Can hardly hear what they're saying.

[iMr Hussein -:[/i ''Do you consider this bravery?''

They should have replied 'about as brave as gassing thousands of innocent children you scumbag'

As long as that justified [ius[/i killing tens of thousands of innocent children in Iraq.

It's all relative, isn't it?

You could also give a listen to the song of the same name by [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffy_Sainte-MarieBuffy Sainte-Marie[/url (it's on youtube), it chronicles the ongoing persecution of the North American First Nations. Such as:

The imprisonment of [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_PeltierLeonard Peltier[/url

The death and desecration of the corpse of [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Mae_AquashAnna Mae Aquash[/url

Seeing as you're talking about native populations there's this interesting article from the [url=http://www.ottawacitizen.com/opinion/op-ed/Idle+More/7753967/story.htmlOttawa Citizen[/url about how it's still an issue today.

[iWhat treaty have the Sioux made with the white man that we have broken? Not one. What treaty have the white man ever made with us that they have kept? Not one. When I was a boy the Sioux owned the world; the sun rose and set on their land; they sent ten thousand men to battle. Where are the warriors today? Who slew them? Where are our lands? Who owns them?.....What law have I broken? Is it wrong for me to love my own? Is it wicked for me that my skin is red? Because I am a Sioux; because I was born where my father lived; because I would die for my people and my country? [/i

Sitting Bull - Tribal Chief - Hunkpapa Lakota Sioux

John Wayne quotes:

[i"I don't feel we did wrong in taking this great country away from them. There were great numbers of people who needed new land, and the Indians were selfishly trying to keep it for themselves."
[/i
[i"Women have the right to work whrever they want, as long as they have the dinner on the table when you get home."[/i

And interestingly:

[i"Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands. It hopes we've learned something from yesterday."
[/i
[urlhttp://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/j/johnwayne121857.html#JLheYbetwawUKx0G.99[/url

And you thought he was acting when he made all them cowboy and injun movies?

I seriously doubt any allied commander said 'right lads, today we will seek out and blow up innocent children', unfortunately there will always be unintended casualties in war, the difference is that Saddam INTENTIONALLY gassed the Kurds. The two are not the same.

You can try and justify it anyway you desire mate.
The allies were responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands (possibly hundreds of thousands depending on varying reports) of innocent women and children by the military action undertaken.
If you want to appease that FACT then that's your perogative.

It still doesn't mean the two facts should be equated. 20,000 French civilians were killed during the D-Day campaign. It doesn't mean that that equates to the same evil as the Nazi's murdering 20,000 Jews in the city of Pinsk.

I wasn't trying to appease or justify, just pointing out the difference between collateral casualties and a direct attack aimed at killing a certain group of people. I am sure that the pilots who have dropped bombs will feel terrible about any innocent casualties, Saddam and his henchmen didn't give a damn.

At least the families of the collateral damage can take solace in the fact they weren't directly attacked.



Ok.

To some, yes.

How are those bomb pilots more innocent than Saddam's men? I'm not sure what the repercussions would be for men not following Saddam's instructions but I bet it was far worse than what US/UK soldiers would face if they refused orders. Given Iraq's consistent human rights violations over the decades I'm probably even underestimating that. I doubt US/UK bomber pilots operated under the same amount of fear and stress yet they are able to still justify this? Isn't that just as cold-blooded a killing?

Don't take the righteous justification away from them otherwise their totally fooked.

They'll have nothing else to cling too.

Today in history - 31st December 1984 Rick Allens car accident ultimateclassicrock.com/def-lepp ... rash-1984/

Today in history - 31st December 1984 Rick Allens car accident ultimateclassicrock.com/def-lepp ... rash-1984/

20 years ago tonight the [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORACLE_%28teletext%29ORACLE[/url teletext service disappeared from our TV screens

[url=http://www.archives.gov/press/press-releases/2013/pdf/emancipation-proclamation-anniversary-brochure.pdf150 years ago today - The Emancipation Proclamation[/url

Not quite as altruistic as it first appears

[i"My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not to either to save or to destroy slavery, If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it"[/i - Abraham Lincoln