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| What a sorry episode.
It was intended to be a prank call. I don't think that they or anyone would have believed that the reception at the hospital would think it was actually the Queen. The prank, and the amusement, (if any) would have been in the conversation.
No doubt to their amazement, they did actually con the receptionist, who was in fact a nurse, covering reception in the early hours. And got put through to the nurse actually caring for the patient.
They then shamefully got this nurse to divulge to them confidential patient data. It doesn't matter who the patient was, this was bang out of order. They had no right at all to the information, and it is on a par with the illicit information obtained by phone hacking - accessing totally private information by deception.
I can see that having unexpectedly fooled reception, and found themselves improbably speaking to Kate's nurse, they got a bit giddy and didn't think it through. But pretending to be teh Queen in a call to the hospital switchboard may have potential for humour; tricking a nurse into releasing confidential patient data does not. Still, at this stage it was only on tape.
What I find hard to believe is that then, the radio station management, having reviewed the call, made the staggering decision to put it out over the airwaves. They are older and wiser heads, and no doubt had access to legal advice if they needed it too, and it is they, more than the novice presenters, who are to blame. They could have congratulated the presenters on their "scoop", but gently explained why they had gone too far, and deleted the tape and sent a private apology to the hospital. Instead, they unbelievably decided it was a fit piece to broadcast.
I have no time for morons who claim this was a prank call just like thousands of other prank calls. It wasn't. The "joke" in most prank calls is that at the end of the call, the truth is revealed, and the humour for the listener is in the reaction of the pranked person. Here, though, the pranked person was never considered. They never gave a moment's thought to her. She was bypassed as pure collateral damage. If they had thought for a minute what position they would put her in, and how mortified she would be that she had been taken in, and put a radio station through which was as a result broadcasting Kate's personal info around the world, maybe they would have taken a different decision.
Of course, it was not predictable that the receptionist would take her own life. It was just predictable that she would be utterly humiliated, mortified and extremely distressed. Not to mention the risk of being involved in data protection and employment consequences. And this is where the morons just don't get it. A "prank" is just that. It's an easy word to understand. So all you need to ask yourself before you choose your victim is, will the victim agree that this was just a prank, and see the funny side? If the answer is a plain "no", then it isn't a prank, but something else. It might have just about been, if when she was taken in, they had immediately disclosed who they really were, in typical prank-show style, and declined to be put through, although I don't see what would have been funny about it myself, but they chose to abandon the "prank" aspect and move on to the new target.
The people who took the decision to broadcast clearly have appalling judgment. I'm sure offences must have been committed and if so they must be prosecuted. They aren't fit to be in charge of a broadcast station and should resign or have their licence pulled.
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"What a sorry episode.
It was intended to be a prank call. I don't think that they or anyone would have believed that the reception at the hospital would think it was actually the Queen. The prank, and the amusement, (if any) would have been in the conversation.
No doubt to their amazement, they did actually con the receptionist, who was in fact a nurse, covering reception in the early hours. And got put through to the nurse actually caring for the patient.
They then shamefully got this nurse to divulge to them confidential patient data. It doesn't matter who the patient was, this was bang out of order. They had no right at all to the information, and it is on a par with the illicit information obtained by phone hacking - accessing totally private information by deception.
I can see that having unexpectedly fooled reception, and found themselves improbably speaking to Kate's nurse, they got a bit giddy and didn't think it through. But pretending to be teh Queen in a call to the hospital switchboard may have potential for humour; tricking a nurse into releasing confidential patient data does not. Still, at this stage it was only on tape.
What I find hard to believe is that then, the radio station management, having reviewed the call, made the staggering decision to put it out over the airwaves. They are older and wiser heads, and no doubt had access to legal advice if they needed it too, and it is they, more than the novice presenters, who are to blame. They could have congratulated the presenters on their "scoop", but gently explained why they had gone too far, and deleted the tape and sent a private apology to the hospital. Instead, they unbelievably decided it was a fit piece to broadcast.
I have no time for morons who claim this was a prank call just like thousands of other prank calls. It wasn't. The "joke" in most prank calls is that at the end of the call, the truth is revealed, and the humour for the listener is in the reaction of the pranked person. Here, though, the pranked person was never considered. They never gave a moment's thought to her. She was bypassed as pure collateral damage. If they had thought for a minute what position they would put her in, and how mortified she would be that she had been taken in, and put a radio station through which was as a result broadcasting Kate's personal info around the world, maybe they would have taken a different decision.
Of course, it was not predictable that the receptionist would take her own life. It was just predictable that she would be utterly humiliated, mortified and extremely distressed. Not to mention the risk of being involved in data protection and employment consequences. And this is where the morons just don't get it. A "prank" is just that. It's an easy word to understand. So all you need to ask yourself before you choose your victim is, will the victim agree that this was just a prank, and see the funny side? If the answer is a plain "no", then it isn't a prank, but something else. It might have just about been, if when she was taken in, they had immediately disclosed who they really were, in typical prank-show style, and declined to be put through, although I don't see what would have been funny about it myself, but they chose to abandon the "prank" aspect and move on to the new target.
The people who took the decision to broadcast clearly have appalling judgment. I'm sure offences must have been committed and if so they must be prosecuted. They aren't fit to be in charge of a broadcast station and should resign or have their licence pulled.'"
I'd like to nominate this as post of the year....
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| Quote ="adelaide-giant.no9"mine is on the wall next to king william'"
Would that be William Of Orange of Battle Of The Boyne fame ?
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| Quote ="Dead Man Walking"Would that be William Of Orange of Battle Of The Boyne fame ?'"
It could be this place mate:
Right opposite the great deliverer's statue
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"The people who took the decision to broadcast clearly have appalling judgment. I'm sure offences must have been committed and if so they must be prosecuted. They aren't fit to be in charge of a broadcast station and should resign or have their licence pulled.'"
Perhaps they could use the Gary McKinnon excuse - "you actually owe us one for demonstrating how rubbish your security is."
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Quote ="Dita's Slot Meter"I'd like to nominate this as post of the year....
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+1
Here's another take on the situation from a disinterested spectator:
ethicsalarms.com/2012/12/08/the- ... nary-tale/
FWIW I think that the biggest can should be picked up and carried by the station management. With power comes responsibility.
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Quote ="Dita's Slot Meter"I'd like to nominate this as post of the year....
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+1
Here's another take on the situation from a disinterested spectator:
ethicsalarms.com/2012/12/08/the- ... nary-tale/
FWIW I think that the biggest can should be picked up and carried by the station management. With power comes responsibility.
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| To the 'outraged', something like this for me.
[urlhttp://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/09/saldanha-prank-quick-judge-slow-learn[/url
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Quote ="Gerald Weaver"Here's another take on the situation from a disinterested spectator:
ethicsalarms.com/2012/12/08/the- ... nary-tale/
FWIW I think that the biggest can should be picked up and carried by the station management. With power comes responsibility.'"
Good article. And I'd agree with where the greatest responsibility lies as well.
I feel that some of the reaction, at least, has been OTT. And on the radio this morning I heard that there are now fears that the female DJ could harm herself as a result of the responsibility she feels. I think it would be better for everyone to draw breath and stand back a little before this spirals completely out of control.
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Quote ="Gerald Weaver"Here's another take on the situation from a disinterested spectator:
ethicsalarms.com/2012/12/08/the- ... nary-tale/
FWIW I think that the biggest can should be picked up and carried by the station management. With power comes responsibility.'"
Good article. And I'd agree with where the greatest responsibility lies as well.
I feel that some of the reaction, at least, has been OTT. And on the radio this morning I heard that there are now fears that the female DJ could harm herself as a result of the responsibility she feels. I think it would be better for everyone to draw breath and stand back a little before this spirals completely out of control.
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| I would be pretty certain that the female DJ is experiencing emotions of a similar kind to those experienced by the deceased nurse. But if she is basically a decent person, and I have no reason to doubt it, the media shiitstorm won't have contributed even 1% more to how bad she will be feeling. Whatever the world's media make of it I shouldn't think would make much difference to her, and there's nothing anyone can do about that now.
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| Plenty of regret and tears from the two Aussie radio presenters.
Anybody would have thought it was [ithem[/i who had killed the unfortunate lady?
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| Quote ="WIZEB"Plenty of regret and tears from the two Aussie radio presenters.
Anybody would have thought it was [ithem[/i who had killed the unfortunate lady?'"
I bet they've had death threats through their stations website/facebook page ( unless they stopped the possibility of posting ).
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| Like the great chicken and egg question: which came first – the infantilised media or the infantilised public it serves by creating an infantilised public discourse?
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| No market, no media.
If people stop buying/listening to the squawking harridans, they'll shut up eventually.
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| I did not follow this tragic story but was not the Briitish press at fault? Was she hounded? It may be that she could have got over the initial embarrassment but maybe the press follow us was too much? If so, any organisations concerned should be named, shamed and penalised (along with any complicit editors and proprietors).
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"No market, no media.
If people stop buying/listening to the squawking harridans, they'll shut up eventually.'"
No sign of it happening thus far, unfortunately. And so everyone suffered the consequences of a dumbed-down public discourse.
Worth noting: the only two UK national dailies that didn't use this as an excuse to splash yet another royal story over it's front pages on Saturday were the [iFT[/i ands [iThe Morning Star[/i.
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| She probably got a right good fooking off her gaffers, although they denied it.
They would, wouldn't they?
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| Quote ="Mintball"No sign of it happening thus far, unfortunately. And so everyone suffered the consequences of a dumbed-down public discourse.
Worth noting: the only two UK national dailies that didn't use this as an excuse to splash yet another royal story over it's front pages on Saturday were the [iFT[/i ands [iThe Morning Star[/i.'"
I think I pointed it out on the Leveson thread, but the problem in this country is that people (mainly the older generation) seem to buy newspapers purely out of habit, rather than any serious newsreading.
My own parents have bought the Mirror for years and recently, after I once questioned their reason for buying it, my mum simply replied she got it for the TV pages!!
Similarly, I once worked with a now retired guy, who brought the Daily Mail to work everyday, despite being one of the most anti-Tory blokes I have ever known - His reply was that he had always bought it and that his wife liked the women's section...He openly admitted that he thought the majority of articles were complete nonsense, yet he still bought it daily!!??
I think what the papers do quite cleverly, is drag people in with the trivial stuff (Horse Racing, other sport, TV, odd bits of travel, etc) and then once they have a captive audience, they can put across their own political agendas.....It is no less brain washing, than all the stuff that the Nazis ever did or that the North Koreans are doing now, yet they manage to hide it under the excuse of freedom of speech.
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| Quote ="Dita's Slot Meter"<snip>'"
I think this is pretty much spot on – although I do think it's perhaps a bit more cross-generational.
And all that, of course, leaves you wondering what a 'free press' really is.
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| I am sure they are genuine in their romorse and what transpired following the hoax was not foreseeable by anyone, but they could do one thing in her memory and that is to get a job with a real media outlet rather than one that targets the Jeremy Kyle set or as the Yanks say 'low life trailer trash'.
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| Quote ="Mintball"I think this is pretty much spot on – although I do think it's perhaps a bit more cross-generational.
And all that, of course, leaves you wondering what a 'free press' really is.'"
A free press is one owned and run by a multi-billionaire who has absolutely no agenda whatsoever to push, run by executives and managers of no political affiliation or preference, in a completely non-partisan way, in nobody's pockets, with the sole aim of making as sure as they can that the public gets the truth.
Here is a full list of all the world's free press:
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| Quote ="WIZEB"She probably got a right good fooking off her gaffers, although they denied it.
They would, wouldn't they?'"
She could have been answerable to the Nursing Midwifery Council (NMC), which is the code of practice for nurses & midwifes, confidentiality is an important aspect for patients and a large part of the code covers this. The worse case scenario is that the nurse involved may have been charged by the council with risk of losing her pin number and struck off.
This is a very sad state of affairs, I have no doubt the nurse felt devastated and possibly scared about facing possible disciplinary (I know I would have felt that way), more so with the call being broadcast for all to hear no doubt added humiliation to how she was feeling.
This was a prank which went terribly wrong, although it has to be said the broadcasters did not kill the nurse as sadly it was her choice to take her own life.
Heartbreak for all concerned including the broadcasters who I hope can eventually move on from this sad saga.
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| Quote ="Dita's Slot Meter"I think I pointed it out on the Leveson thread, but the problem in this country is that people (mainly the older generation) seem to buy newspapers purely out of habit, rather than any serious newsreading.
My own parents have bought the Mirror for years and recently, after I once questioned their reason for buying it, my mum simply replied she got it for the TV pages!!
'"
You're not wrong there mate IMHO.
Your mum only needs to buy Saturday's paper (and it's supplement) if she wants TV pages, so why does she buy the rest?
That's all I do to keep my wife onside and then I don't read the paper that comes with it.
It's The Mail, it's tosh!
I'm a free man since I cancelled the rest!
I could swap but inertia has me, oh and tradition.
Lots of my mates are Mail readers and it shows, the bile they spew forth is laughable, but mates are mates. Thick and thin and all that ... mainly thick.
I jest.
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"What a sorry episode.
It was intended to be a prank call. I don't think that they or anyone would have believed that the reception at the hospital would think it was actually the Queen. The prank, and the amusement, (if any) would have been in the conversation.
No doubt to their amazement, they did actually con the receptionist, who was in fact a nurse, covering reception in the early hours. And got put through to the nurse actually caring for the patient.
They then shamefully got this nurse to divulge to them confidential patient data. It doesn't matter who the patient was, this was bang out of order. They had no right at all to the information, and it is on a par with the illicit information obtained by phone hacking - accessing totally private information by deception.
I can see that having unexpectedly fooled reception, and found themselves improbably speaking to Kate's nurse, they got a bit giddy and didn't think it through. But pretending to be teh Queen in a call to the hospital switchboard may have potential for humour; tricking a nurse into releasing confidential patient data does not. Still, at this stage it was only on tape.
What I find hard to believe is that then, the radio station management, having reviewed the call, made the staggering decision to put it out over the airwaves. They are older and wiser heads, and no doubt had access to legal advice if they needed it too, and it is they, more than the novice presenters, who are to blame. They could have congratulated the presenters on their "scoop", but gently explained why they had gone too far, and deleted the tape and sent a private apology to the hospital. Instead, they unbelievably decided it was a fit piece to broadcast.
I have no time for morons who claim this was a prank call just like thousands of other prank calls. It wasn't. The "joke" in most prank calls is that at the end of the call, the truth is revealed, and the humour for the listener is in the reaction of the pranked person. Here, though, the pranked person was never considered. They never gave a moment's thought to her. She was bypassed as pure collateral damage. If they had thought for a minute what position they would put her in, and how mortified she would be that she had been taken in, and put a radio station through which was as a result broadcasting Kate's personal info around the world, maybe they would have taken a different decision.
Of course, it was not predictable that the receptionist would take her own life. It was just predictable that she would be utterly humiliated, mortified and extremely distressed. Not to mention the risk of being involved in data protection and employment consequences. And this is where the morons just don't get it. A "prank" is just that. It's an easy word to understand. So all you need to ask yourself before you choose your victim is, will the victim agree that this was just a prank, and see the funny side? If the answer is a plain "no", then it isn't a prank, but something else. It might have just about been, if when she was taken in, they had immediately disclosed who they really were, in typical prank-show style, and declined to be put through, although I don't see what would have been funny about it myself, but they chose to abandon the "prank" aspect and move on to the new target.
The people who took the decision to broadcast clearly have appalling judgment. I'm sure offences must have been committed and if so they must be prosecuted. They aren't fit to be in charge of a broadcast station and should resign or have their licence pulled.'"
Good post.
I read that this lady had only been in the country six years and would likely not have picked up on the nuances of accent or been aware that anyone would possibly make such a call so as to be sufficiently prepared to bat it away. To find out you have been so comprehensively duped and involved probably one of the best known and widely reported families in the world, not to mention all the potential career and family consequences being duped might have, must have been agony. I can't imagine how it would have been worth taking a life but then I am not the nurse. But I can imagine the burning humiliation and the shame and the knowing that for some all of it was a big fat hilarious joke. How awful for the woman.
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| Miscarriage anyone?
Or will Leverson get his wishes?
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| Quote ="Bet Lynch"...
... it has to be said the broadcasters did not kill the nurse as sadly it was her choice to take her own life.
'"
You are the first that I've read who blames the nurse for being dead. It's an interesting take, or else it's the most crassly ignorant take on the state of mind of a suicide victim I've ever heard. "Her CHOICE"?? You believe this is what she would have CHOSEN for herself and her family? You miss the entire point, which is to the suicidal, there IS no choice, because in the state they find themselves in, death seems the only way out.
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