There's a little frenzy going on about whether Andy Murray should be knighted for his services to strawberry sales.

What do you think?

Setting aside the issue of honours as a whole (did you know that the record for most rejections of honours goes to LS Lowry?), it's something you offer at the end of someone's career.

Otherwise, in this sense: two grand slams = knighthood; what happens if he wins six slams in total (as per John McEnroe's prediction), including, say, a trio of Wimbledon titles?

It's populist nonsense.

On a side note it was rather amusing watching the British political glitterati vying for centre stage at the final.
Nauseatingly amusing that is.

Seeing Alex Salmond waving a Scottish flag, directly behind David Cameron's head was quite amusing.

That, in shovel-loads. Murray is deserving of praise but a knighthood is not right at this stage.

Responses so far tie in with my own view.

If I may widen the discussion ... what do the panel think about knighthoods and gongships to captains of industry and civil servants who were (in my view) just doing their job and getting well-paid for it?

A pole with lashings of grease on it.
It's all a game anyway, isn't it?

Decorating the already decorated.

In this case, what is the point? He's just been made Wimbledon tennis champion, something the media and sponsors will jump all over for years.

Services to tennis? He hasn't provided any service to tennis whatsoever. He's simply served himself by competing in tennis tournaments.

The honours system is mainly BS anyway. It's not going to change with his imminent knighthood. They should just make sure that Ryan Giggs gets knighted at the same time.

You should not get an honour for winning one tournament. Nadal and Federer weren't up for the tournament, so Murray gets a gong for winning one tennis match in effect.

I've no problem him getting one further down the line when he retires if he continues to behave as he has. The Olympics set a dangerous precedent though, with everyone who got a medal seemingly getting an award, and that is another set of very elitist sports like tennis where so few play the game that it's basically money that decides whether you are successful or not.

Old boys' club back-slapping, certainly in terms of civil servants.

For "captains of industry" – well, why not if they really have done well, creating jobs and not just getting rid of them, for instance.

But should [url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/blog/2013/jul/08/tesco-needs-clawback-terry-leahy-payout[iSir[/i Terry Leahy hand his back[/url? Does it set a bad example in terms of what the establishment might be considered to be applauding? His behaviour (and he is not alone in creating this situation) hardly seems to be good for the business.

Its a total irrelevance to me, I have no interest at all in whether or not he gets a knighthood or a kick up the backside, in the nicest possible sense of course, public awards are meaningless to me.

On LS Lowry he twice declined an OBE and then declined a Knighthood and later twice declined a Companion of Honour, something that is reserved for an Outstanding Lifetime of Achievment for those in the Arts & Science with only 65 living recipients in any monarchs lifetime - the monarch selects thenm personally.

His reason for turning down every offer ?

He is quoted as saying "I don't want to accept anything that will change me from what I am"


My favourite Lowry story stems from his hatred of recognition, particulalry from people who would turn up at his door randomly to meet him, he used to keep a suitcase by the front door and use it as an excuse to get rid of visitors saying "oh dear, and I was just going out too". It backfired one day though when a visitor insisted on taking him to the train station where Lowry, with his empty suitcase had to buy a ticket for a train and get off at the next stop to shake off his visitor.

He also said, in one refusal letter: "all my life I have felt most strongly against social distinction of any kind."

Having seen the system from the inside I must say I don't have any time for it - some of the people who get an M deserve WAY more recognition than those who get higher awards. The concept of "Buggins' turn" applies to a lot of the awards too.

On the basis of what we saw, my colleagues and I swore a pact that we'd turn down anything less than a knighthood/damehood too

If this thread carries on the way it's going, someone will have to turn devil's advocate.
Is no-one in favour of the system?

I think there is something to it in terms of providing recognition and acknowledgement for those who serve the community, either in a voluntary capacity or in low paid jobs. Guys like Colin Cooper at Hunslet Parkside, for example.

The idea of getting one simply for sporting achievement - and already well rewarded sporting achievement at that - is alien to what the honours system should be about though, IMO.

It's fairly typical of Cameron's psyche though. Murray trousers £1.8 million and Camoron thinks that deserves a knighthood

Compare that to the 1966 World Cup winning team:

Only two knighthoods (Bobby /Charlton & Geoff Hurst)

It took 34 years to recognise Alan Ball, Roger Hunt, Nobby Stiles, Ray Wilson and George Cohen with MBEs

I don't think there's any chance of a Sir for Andy, but I think as usual most people miss the point when it comes to honours. You can minimise or denigrate what he achieved with a facetious "well he only just won a tennis game, and got well paid for it", but then you are deliberately ignoring the facts, you are irrationally discounting the true measures of the achievement. Which, on any view, is a massive achievement. It's a bit like saying Edmund Hillary "only climbed to the top of a hill". Yes, but which hill, and who did it last?

The honours system is IMHO in large parts broken, but equally I have seen huge numbers of awards for unsung heroes who have just quietly worked to help others for many years, or some such, and those sort of awards are richly deserved, and mean so much to the recipients.

I expect there's a greater than 50/50 chance Murray may get a knighthood though, bearing in mind recent form (Bradley Wiggins, anyone?) and he and Wiggins certainly would deserve one a damn sight more than some buggins' turn civil service penpusher.

Couple of questions for everyone...

1. If you met a Knight of the Realm would you call him "Sir", would you address him as "Sir Andrew" for instance ?

2. If you met Sir Andrew in a pub and he introduced himself as Sir Andrew how would that affect your opinion of him ?


Do you know anyone with one of the lesser medals, OBE for instance, who puts "OBE" at the end of their name when signing things, and would you do so if enobled ?

1. Errr, no.

2. I'd laugh hilariously.

I agree with you (for a change). If I were Murray I'd be embarrassed to be called "Sir" whilst still playing.

Speaking of Lowry we're going to the Tate (all being well) on Satuday. Parking space / tickets reserved. Been to Salford before but Mrs D was keen to go and see some of hs work again. I like it too. Reminds me of childhood when the family still owned a mill.

Have done so – and no. Have managed to meet royals and not use any particularly deferrential words, although still managed to be completely polite.





I'd think he was a plonker – a bit like Ben Kingsley, who went around demanding he be addressed in such a manner for some time after his knighthood.

The opportunity is too good to miss ...



[url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk/2013/07/lowry-painter-for-world.htmlLowry at the Tate[/url

[url=http://thevoluptuousmanifesto.blogspot.co.uk/2010/10/lapping-up-lowry.htmlLowry at the, err, Lowry (and the Manchester Art Gallery)[/url

We have a client who insists of signing all his correspondence with MBE after his name. Twattish.

Erm, his cheque went to the Royal Marsden. Didn't make a song and dance about it, just did it.

There is a place for an honours system in a modern society but handing out gongs for winning a bike race or a tennis tournament isn't the way forward.

Mind in saying that, sports personality of the year is pretty much sewn up.