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sturdyblog.wordpress.com/2012/01 ... monstrate/
Quite a scary thought. Even if it is only intended for the Olympic games (which reminds me heavily of Chinas approach to crowd control), it's a fair bet that it'll continue afterwards.
If it is only intended for the duration of the Olympics, why the need for a ban on tents? Why the need for the banning on banners and the like?
And why the need to ban the feeding of birds?
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sturdyblog.wordpress.com/2012/01 ... monstrate/
Quite a scary thought. Even if it is only intended for the Olympic games (which reminds me heavily of Chinas approach to crowd control), it's a fair bet that it'll continue afterwards.
If it is only intended for the duration of the Olympics, why the need for a ban on tents? Why the need for the banning on banners and the like?
And why the need to ban the feeding of birds?
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| Tents don't belong in our city centres unless someone has been murdered or they need to cover up an open manhole. You can't see what goes on inside a tent and there's a risk - however small - that someone could be making a bomb inside one.
As for the birds - feeding them attracts them in large numbers which spreads disease and makes them shiit everywhere.
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| Quote ="ROBINSON"You can't see what goes on inside a tent and there's a risk - however small - that someone could be making a bomb inside one.'"
Quite right. Lets ban houses too, or at least make them out of glass
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| Quote ="ROBINSON"Tents don't belong in our city centres unless someone has been murdered or they need to cover up an open manhole. You can't see what goes on inside a tent and there's a risk - however small - that someone could be making a bomb inside one.
As for the birds - feeding them attracts them in large numbers which spreads disease and makes them shiit everywhere.'"
Now I KNOW you're just a troll.
Let me see how many tents I've been in that have had safe enough areas to make explosives (and I've been in a lot of tents over the last thirty or forty years).
Erm, a rough estimate would be 'none whatsoever'. And why only in those two places?
I assume birds in other parts of the country don't spread disease?
How about the banners and loudhailers then? Are you expecting exploding placards that shower the city in Anthrax?
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| Just off on a side tangent for a moment; I have just found out today the new benefit rules for ESA states "[iYou must tell us if you or your partner go away from home - even if its for a day" [/i- ffs I now have to call the DWP every day to tell them my husband has just left for work, I'm going to my hospital appointment in Leeds, I'm going to watch my rugby team, I'm going to the seaside for fresh air, I'm going to the caravan for a weekend etc etc. Talk about a police state
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| The way to deal with that is to tell them every time you leave the house - there is no definition of 'away' that they can give you.
They'll soon get fed up with you.
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| Quote ="ROBINSON"You can't see what goes on inside a tent and there's a risk - however small - that someone could be making a bomb inside one.
'"
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| Quote ="ROBINSON"Tents don't belong in our city centres unless someone has been murdered or they need to cover up an open manhole. You can't see what goes on inside a tent and there's a risk - however small - that someone could be making a bomb inside one.
As for the birds - feeding them attracts them in large numbers which spreads disease and makes them shiit everywhere.'"
HAVE YOU EVER TRIED WALKING IN BETWEEN GUIDE ROPES BETWEEN TENTS? F[iU[/iCKING NIGHTMARE! NO GOOD IN CITY CENTRES AT ALL.
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| Quote ="CAPTAIN ALLCAPS"HAVE YOU EVER TRIED WALKING IN BETWEEN GUIDE ROPES BETWEEN TENTS? F[iU[/iCKING NIGHTMARE! NO GOOD IN CITY CENTRES AT ALL.'"
They're GUY ropes daft lad.
Septic Peg foresees a long and fruitful relationship for you on these boards
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| Quote ="Hull White Star"Just off on a side tangent for a moment; I have just found out today the new benefit rules for ESA states "[iYou must tell us if you or your partner go away from home - even if its for a day" [/i- ffs I now have to call the DWP every day to tell them my husband has just left for work, I'm going to my hospital appointment in Leeds, I'm going to watch my rugby team, I'm going to the seaside for fresh air, I'm going to the caravan for a weekend etc etc. Talk about a police state
'"
Don't forget to let them know when you book your £30k free car in for its free service and valet will you?
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| Quote ="cod'ead"They're GUY ropes daft lad.'"
WHO THE BLINKING FLIP IS guy?
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| Quote ="cod'ead"Don't forget to let them know when you book your £30k free car in for its free service and valet will you?'"
B*gg*r! You've just made me spit coffee all over my keyboard.
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| Quote ="Chris28"Quite right. Lets ban houses too, or at least make them out of glass
'"
Didn't think you could build houses on Parliament Square these days...
FFS
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| Quote ="CAPTAIN ALLCAPS"WHO THE BLINKING FLIP IS guy?'"
Wow. A second pimple on the arrse of the forum, which is so totally devoid of any discernable point, it's off to my foes bin.
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| I'm sure the political class are privately overjoyed that the Olympic Games has provided them with the perfect opportunity to enact draconian laws preventing embarrassing protesters (many of whom have been let down by successive governments and harbour legitimate grievances) from occupying areas within the capital. Of course, the true test will be whether such laws are repealed after the Olympics - or will some other trumped up pretext materialise out of nowhere to replace it?
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| Are you a gambler Mugwump?
I'm still trying to work out how terrorists would even possibly conceive to smuggle explosive making material into a tent, concoct their little bomb and then use it in an area where there are more than one or two Police officers. I'm sure if this was even a slightly likely scenario then there would be sniffer dogs at the very least, same as they have used on 'Occupy' camps for drugs.
That really has been post of the week for me
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| I agree that governments have an appalling record of sneaking in what turns out to be permanent legislation by the back door; also for using legislation for spurious purposes for which it was plainly never intended.
But there are in the case of the Olympics conflicting issues. The actual event itself is a forum for the world's ultimate athelets to compete, and a chance for lesser mortals to watch. That fundamentally is it. Most of these athletes devote their lives to excellence in their chosen event. If the athletes want to go and compete, and I, or anyone, wants to go and watch, why should I or they be impeded, or have the day ruined, by protesters who have no issue with the Olympics per se, no issue with me, and no issue with the athletes, but issues with government policy?
Of course, the reason such events are chosen is because of the media attention any disruption would attract. But the problem to me is that in some cases (depending on the nature, venue and likely course of a 'protest') it is dangerously close to becoming more akin to blackmail: "change your policies on X, otherwise we will ruin your Y".
The second issue is that the bigger the protest, the greater the likelihood of it, or parts of it, being commandeered by criminal elements, who take advantage of the stretching of police resources and the weight of numbers to engage in pure criminality.
I entirely support the democratic right to peaceful protest, but if a protest goes far beyond being a passive event, and is additionally an active event which does not only protest, but chooses a method an/or a place of protesting that goes further, and also seriously impinges on the rights of others to a very significant degree, should be susceptible to some form of control.
There cannot be a universal right to do whatever you want, wherever you want to do it, as long as you're carrying a protest banner.
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| Quote ="ROBINSON"Didn't think you could build houses on Parliament Square these days...
FFS'"
You said "You can't see what goes on inside a tent" not "Tents in certain places, like Parliament Square, could be dangerous"
If we're talking Parliament Square, "You can't see what goes on inside Middlesex Guildhall and there's a risk - however small - that someone could be making a bomb inside "
FFS
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| Quote ="Chris28"icon_confused.gif:
You said "You can't see what goes on inside a tent" not "Tents in certain places, like Parliament Square, could be dangerous"
If we're talking Parliament Square, "You can't see what goes on inside Middlesex Guildhall and there's a risk - however small - that someone could be making a bomb inside "
FFS
'"
Not just the buildings mate, they'd better expose the cellars too, especially the one under The Palace of Westminster. I believe it has some previous in the bomb making stakes.
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| Quote ="ROBINSON"Tents don't belong in our city centres unless someone has been murdered or they need to cover up an open manhole. You can't see what goes on inside a tent and there's a risk - however small - that someone could be making a bomb inside one.'"
That's pretty poor, now what's your real reason?
Quote ="ROBINSON"As for the birds - feeding them attracts them in large numbers which spreads disease and makes them shiit everywhere.'"
This is true.
Trafalgar Sqare used to slippy with pigeon shiittt everywhere, kids would be clarted-up with the stuff.
Banning the feeding of birds there was a simple public health issue and that byelaw has been in place for at least a decade.
Moving on ...
I see that one of the things that is banned is the making of any public speech or addressing a crowd (quite apart from the rules about amplification, which are separate).
That is worthy of opposition.
Trafalgar Square has been the historical venue for many a speech, some of which I agreed with and many of which I didn't.
I see this byelaw as a restriction of what should be anyone's right.
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| What will become of the guys at Speakers Corner?
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"What will become of the guys at Speakers Corner?'"
Is Hyde Park covered by the legislation?
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| Quote ="Chris28"Is Hyde Park covered by the legislation?'"
There is a wider issue than just Boris's byelaws:
[urlhttp://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/media-centre/speeches/Home-sec-olympic-speech[/url
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"What will become of the guys at Speakers Corner?'"
THEY'LL HAVE TO RAISE THEIR VOICES.
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| Quote ="Ferocious Aardvark"I agree that governments have an appalling record of sneaking in what turns out to be permanent legislation by the back door; also for using legislation for spurious purposes for which it was plainly never intended.
But there are in the case of the Olympics conflicting issues. The actual event itself is a forum for the world's ultimate athelets to compete, and a chance for lesser mortals to watch. That fundamentally is it. Most of these athletes devote their lives to excellence in their chosen event. If the athletes want to go and compete, and I, or anyone, wants to go and watch, why should I or they be impeded, or have the day ruined, by protesters who have no issue with the Olympics per se, no issue with me, and no issue with the athletes, but issues with government policy?
Of course, the reason such events are chosen is because of the media attention any disruption would attract. But the problem to me is that in some cases (depending on the nature, venue and likely course of a 'protest') it is dangerously close to becoming more akin to blackmail: "change your policies on X, otherwise we will ruin your Y".
The second issue is that the bigger the protest, the greater the likelihood of it, or parts of it, being commandeered by criminal elements, who take advantage of the stretching of police resources and the weight of numbers to engage in pure criminality.
I entirely support the democratic right to peaceful protest, but if a protest goes far beyond being a passive event, and is additionally an active event which does not only protest, but chooses a method an/or a place of protesting that goes further, and also seriously impinges on the rights of others to a very significant degree, should be susceptible to some form of control.
There cannot be a universal right to do whatever you want, wherever you want to do it, as long as you're carrying a protest banner.'"
Just which events are happening on Trafalgar Square and Parliament Square?
If you're concerned about people travelling from those sites to other parts of London, why isn't it being proposed that the whole of London is covered by this ban? Surely that would make more sense? If I can disrupt activities in London by campaigning on Trafalgar Square, I'm damn sure I can do the same by campainging at Whitehall, or Oxford Street, Pall Mall, or many other areas of London?
There can be no reasonable justification for the over pampering of people who - at the end of the day - contribute nothing to the country other than their ability to run, throw, row or whatever over the trampling of the right to free speech.
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