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Just had a glance at the BBC website to see what this star in the economics firmament has to say.
Across his picture it says "This content doesn't seem to be working - Try again later".
How very apt.
Basically I want to se how he phrases the following ...
Growth - none
Borrowing - up and now way exceeds what Labour planned ... Gideon said that was far too much when they proposed it.
Deficit reduction - "rolling five year plan", it starts when he says it started and he hasn't said that yet. - Neat politics, that is.
Plan B - what plan B?
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Never mind, at least you'll be able to get from Leeds to Manchester ten minutes quicker once they've lined the pockets of Balfour Beatty (or whoever gets the contract) with public money on a vanity project.
It's quite comical really, watching the coalition stagger from "slash and burn" to "spend, spend, spend" as a cure for the nation's economic ills.
Are we running a book on how long it takes Robinson or Standee to come along and blame it all on the much lower deficit that the previous government left behind?
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Oh, and you can get £50 knocked off your water bill.
You just need to move to the South West.
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They really have it in for public sector workers like my hard working hubby don't they? Couple that with the revision on DLA and the Contributionary ESA debacle then me and my husband are screwed. You try to do right over the years, own your own house, no loans, pay off credit cards on time, don't have children when you know you can't look after them, and they treat you like this. Tory to$$ers
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| I am finding Ed Balls surprisingly handsome and mesmorising   |
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"It's quite comical really, watching the coalition stagger from "slash and burn" to "spend, spend, spend" as a cure for the nation's economic ills.'"
It would be, if it wasn't so annoying. "We've no money" is the cry, yet they remarkably seem to be finding funds for various projects such as £380m for nursery places and £500m to pay private sector employers to take people on apprenticeships.
Either the money is there or it isn't. How can we have it both ways? |
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| International Chairman | 14522 | No
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| Quote ="Hull White Star"They really have it in for public sector workers like my hard working hubby don't they? Couple that with the revision on DLA and the Contributionary ESA debacle then me and my husband are screwed. You try to do right over the years, own your own house, no loans, pay off credit cards on time, don't have children when you know you can't look after them, and they treat you like this. Tory to$$ers'"
Ah well ... that's because public sector workers do next to nothing and get "gold-plated" pensions.
Must be true, I heard Francis Maude say so.
They'll all get jobs in the private sector.
Must be true, I heard Osborne say so.
Cameron is cutting the deficit not the NHS.
Must be true, I saw a poster with him on it, saying so.
We're all in it together. |
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| Quote ="Chris28"It would be, if it wasn't so annoying. "We've no money" is the cry, yet they remarkably seem to be finding funds for various projects such as £380m for nursery places and £500m to pay private sector employers to take people on apprenticeships.
Either the money is there or it isn't. How can we have it both ways?'"
Well, the £5bn for infrastructure projects is coming mostly from freezing Working Tax Credits. |
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"
Are we running a book on how long it takes Robinson or Standee to come along and blame it all on the much lower deficit that the previous government left behind?'"
Not really. I was all for a change of government due mainly to how arrogant the previous lot got. The current lot need to pull their finger out, for sure.
I'm still far from convinced that either party have the right answers, and I certainly wouldn't be yearning for a return to Labour any time soon. |
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| Quote ="Chris28"It would be, if it wasn't so annoying. "We've no money" is the cry, yet they remarkably seem to be finding funds for various projects such as £380m for nursery places and £500m to pay private sector employers to take people on apprenticeships.
Either the money is there or it isn't. How can we have it both ways?'"
What is funny, in a very, very dry sort of way, is how they're essentially reviving Labour policies that they'd scrapped – like the Future Jobs Fund, for instance.
I think that they thought the economy would just sort of sort itself out – and they could use the deficit as an excuse to play slash and burn and pursue a vastly reduced state on ideological grounds.
Osborne has, for weeks now, been telling everyone on the other side of the Channel to sort out the Eurozone crisis – which he's now blaming for the deepening deficit – but he never has a bloody suggestion himself for what to do.
And as I've said before, it is utter economic illiteracy, given that we have an economy currently dependent on consumers spending, to reduce the amount of money that people have to spend. In the longer term, I suspect that most people would now realise the problems caused by de-industrialisation, but in the short term, the way out of the recession is growth and we have to grow those sectors that currently exist. |
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| Quote ="Mintball"What is funny, in a very, very dry sort of way, is how they're essentially reviving Labour policies that they'd scrapped – like the Future Jobs Fund, for instance.
I think that they thought the economy would just sort of sort itself out – and they could use the deficit as an excuse to play slash and burn and pursue a vastly reduced state on ideological grounds.
Osborne has, for weeks now, been telling everyone on the other side of the Channel to sort out the Eurozone crisis – which he's now blaming for the deepening deficit – but he never has a bloody suggestion himself for what to do.
And as I've said before, it is utter economic illiteracy, given that we have an economy currently dependent on consumers spending, to reduce the amount of money that people have to spend. In the longer term, I suspect that most people would now realise the problems caused by de-industrialisation, but in the short term, the way out of the recession is growth and we have to grow those sectors that currently exist.'"
We indeed do have an economy dependent on consumer spending. So what's the point of this policy they've been signalling this week where they're offering to guarantee loans to small enterprises? This is supply side economics, yet the problems seems to be demand side. Unless I'm missing something, this is yet more economic illiteracy. |
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| Quote ="ROBINSON"Not really. I was all for a change of government due mainly to how arrogant the previous lot got. The current lot need to pull their finger out, for sure.
I'm still far from convinced that either party have the right answers, and I certainly wouldn't be yearning for a return to Labour any time soon.'"
Regarding the current lot, I firmly believe that they are doing exactly what they [uintended[/u to do.
i.e. complete the destruction of the post-war settlement, a destruction begun in 1970 or 1979, depending on whether you think it was Heath or Thatcher who began it.
This is, of course, nothing like what they [usaid[/u they were going to do.
Make no mistake, what they are doing is for political, idealogical and self-serving reasons not the economic reasons to which they lay claim. |
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I see a 1% public sector pay increase cap is "fair to taxpayers", the obvious follow on being that public sector workers AREN'T taxpayers (seeing as a cap is hardly "fair"icon_wink.gif
No one told me that - does it mean I'm eligible for a refund for the 14 years income tax I paid, or the huge amount of VAT I paid on good, services and fuel etc?
Or are public sector workers being made the scapegoat by this set of chancers (as opposed to the last set) and the media AGAIN?
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| Quote ="Chris28"I see a 1% public sector pay increase cap is "fair to taxpayers", the obvious follow on being that public sector workers AREN'T taxpayers (seeing as a cap is hardly "fair"icon_wink.gif
No one told me that - does it mean I'm eligible for a refund for the 14 years income tax I paid, or the huge amount of VAT I paid on good, services and fuel etc?
Or are public sector workers being made the scapegoat by this set of chancers (as opposed to the last set) and the media AGAIN?'"
I've had this argument with someone already Chris. Claims he pays public sector workers wages and not happy about the strike, when I mentioned my hubby also paid taxes the same so in essance paid into his own wages this person failed to respond.
What this government are doing to the sick/disabled and public sector workers is nothing short of a witch hunt and a disgrace. Turning worker against worker. Divide and conquer I believe its called. |
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| Quote ="Andy Gilder"It's quite comical really, watching the coalition stagger from "slash and burn" to "spend, spend, spend" as a cure for the nation's economic ills.'"
The irony surely can't be lost on anyone, even the most right wing zealot, that with these infrastructure projects they are simply trying to spend their way out of recession.
The trouble is even with this new spending it does not make up for the money they have taken out of the economy already by the cuts. So whether it will make any great difference as the cuts bite further is debatable. Better not to have flung so many into unemployment in the first place.
As to the reason why its gone belly up for Osborne it is NOT down to the crisis in the Euro but because the effect of the 2008 crash did far greater damage to our economy then first thought.
Now given the 2008 crash was caused by the banks what is his remedy? Well in part it is to limit public sector workers pay to a 1% par rise while he adopts inflationary polices (qualitative easing, VAT rise, potential fuel duty rises etc) further eroding their ability to spend thus help the economy never mind what the effect there is on living standards.
So what we end up with here is in effect a deficit tax.
The ordinary people having seen the deficit shoot up to stop the banks going bust are now the ones being fleeced to pay the deficit down.
Meanwhile Orsborne cut corporation tax (which gives banks even bigger profits) in the vein hope this will stimulate growth when all companies are doing with this windfall is sitting on the cash because they fear investing in the current climate.
I don't think there has been a more incompetent government since the end of WWII and we have had some before now! |
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I've got a project that they can fund, that will solve many ills but may cause a bit of a problem to some.
Local councils have lots of land that's basically hanging around doing nothing.
Houses are relatively cheap to build - if we take only cost of materials and labour into account.
Why not get housebuilders building houses on council-owned land? The houses are then rented out, not according to market forces but according to the cost of build and projected maintenance. The council retains the title to the land and they and the developers get a monthly payment - a bit like a mortgage in reverse
That way we get people to work building houses and the required infrastructure, we stimulate the economy because people need to furnish those houses. I'm sure it's been done before and it was pretty successfull last time round.
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| If only [iChance the Gardener[/i mistakenly wandered into the Downing Street 'rose garden', [iDave[/i and [iGideons[/i problems would be solved in a oner.
=#0000FFPrime Minister ''Dave'' : Mr Gardner, do you agree with Lord Ashcroft, or do you think we can stimulate growth through temporary incentives?
[i(Long pause)[/i
=#0000FFChance The Gardener : As long as the roots are not severed, all is well. And all will be well in the garden.
=#0000FFPM ''Dave'' : In the garden.
=#0000FFChance The Gardener : Yes. In the garden, growth has its seasons. First comes spring and summer, but then we have autumn and winter. And then we get spring and summer again.
=#0000FFPM ''Dave'' : Spring and summer.
=#0000FFChance The Gardener : Yes.
=#0000FFLord Ashcroft : I think what our insightful young friend is saying is that we welcome the inevitable seasons of nature, but we're upset by the seasons of our economy.
=#0000FFChance The Gardener : Yes! There will be growth in the spring!
=#0000FFLord Ashcroft : Hmm!
Chance The Gardener : Hmm!
=#0000FFPM Dave : Hmm. Well Mr Gardner, I must admit that is one of the most refreshing and optimistic statements I've heard in a very, very long time.
[i(Lord Ashcroft applauds)[/i
=#0000FFPM ''Dave'' : I admire your good solid sense. That's precisely what we lack in Downing Street. |
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I've just thought where we could get some more land from. There are also many companies (supermarkets for one) and individuals who are sitting on non-productive land, in the hope that they can make a fast buck in the future. So we could offer them an alternative: either they offer up the land for my housing developments, on a 99 year lease, at a peppercorn rent. The alternative is we charge them an annual land tax, based on a theoretical maximum developed value. That should free up another few acres around the country.
In fact, [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/david-cameron/8908429/David-Cameron-in-140000-land-deal-with-lobbying-boss.htmlthis fella[/url could make a start by offering up his spare land to the scheme
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| Quote ="ROBINSON"Not really. I was all for a change of government due mainly to how arrogant the previous lot got. The current lot need to pull their finger out, for sure.
I'm still far from convinced that either party have the right answers.'"
Pretty much agree with that, Labour's VAT cut didn't work last time and it won't work this time either, Cable warned during the election that Osbourne's way would lead to any growth being strangled at birth and he was right. |
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| International Chairman | 37704 | No
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| Quote ="Big Graeme"Cable warned during the election that Osbourne's way would lead to any growth being strangled at birth and he was right.'"
Strangely he now seems reluctant to say "Told you so". It's not like 'im |
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| Quote ="cod'ead"Strangely he now seems reluctant to say "Told you so". It's not like 'im'"
He likes riding in a ministerial limo more than having a conscience, it would seem. |
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Quote ="Red John"We indeed do have an economy dependent on consumer spending. So what's the point of this policy they've been signalling this week where they're offering to guarantee loans to small enterprises? This is supply side economics, yet the problems seems to be demand side. Unless I'm missing something, this is yet more economic illiteracy.'"
It's pretty difficult to properly stimulate demand when personal debt levels are as high as this:
www.creditaction.org.uk/helpful- ... stics.html
...and when our major markets are now in recession, not helped by the fact that every government back to Heath locked us so firmly into the protectionist European cartel.
We've just spent the last decade on a credit binge and we're spent up. We need some serious structural reforms to unlock that demand and split it out, and the main one is to entirely reform the tax system.
1. Remove non-domiciled status.
2. Stop pretending that NI and income tax are somehow different and go to a different pot. Merge NI into income tax and create three new bands: 15% (up to 20k), 25% (up to 38k), 40% (up to 150k), 50% (150k onwards). Put anyone aged over 65 onto a separate tax code to reflect the fact that we don't charge them NI currently. Raise the personal threshold to 10k, abolish tax credits. Abolish all other loopholes, as per non-doms. Hundreds of thousands will suddenly have a significant amount of money available to them.
3. Increase the number of bands for council tax from A-E to A-J, reducing most people's contributions.
4. Make second-home owners pay full council tax.
Those would probably annoy the rich AND the unions, so must be a good thing!
On top of that:
1. Renationalise the railways by allowing the franchises to lapse- no more subsidising the operators' profits.
2. Repeal the ludicrous decision by Brown to allow property to count as part of a personal pension pot, which has driven up the buy-to-let market which caused the whole crash to start with.
3. Ban any mortgages over 100%.
4. Hurry up the ban self-certified markets.
5. Restrict the pay of local authority chiefs to £150k.
6. Merge NHS IT systems by county.
7. Merge the DTI into the Treasury.
8. Move the Ministry of Agriculture out of London.
But none of this will ever happen, because it'd annoy too many powerful people in business and the unions. |
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Quote ="Red John"We indeed do have an economy dependent on consumer spending. So what's the point of this policy they've been signalling this week where they're offering to guarantee loans to small enterprises? This is supply side economics, yet the problems seems to be demand side. Unless I'm missing something, this is yet more economic illiteracy.'"
It's pretty difficult to properly stimulate demand when personal debt levels are as high as this:
www.creditaction.org.uk/helpful- ... stics.html
...and when our major markets are now in recession, not helped by the fact that every government back to Heath locked us so firmly into the protectionist European cartel.
We've just spent the last decade on a credit binge and we're spent up. We need some serious structural reforms to unlock that demand and split it out, and the main one is to entirely reform the tax system.
1. Remove non-domiciled status.
2. Stop pretending that NI and income tax are somehow different and go to a different pot. Merge NI into income tax and create three new bands: 15% (up to 20k), 25% (up to 38k), 40% (up to 150k), 50% (150k onwards). Put anyone aged over 65 onto a separate tax code to reflect the fact that we don't charge them NI currently. Raise the personal threshold to 10k, abolish tax credits. Abolish all other loopholes, as per non-doms. Hundreds of thousands will suddenly have a significant amount of money available to them.
3. Increase the number of bands for council tax from A-E to A-J, reducing most people's contributions.
4. Make second-home owners pay full council tax.
Those would probably annoy the rich AND the unions, so must be a good thing!
On top of that:
1. Renationalise the railways by allowing the franchises to lapse- no more subsidising the operators' profits.
2. Repeal the ludicrous decision by Brown to allow property to count as part of a personal pension pot, which has driven up the buy-to-let market which caused the whole crash to start with.
3. Ban any mortgages over 100%.
4. Hurry up the ban self-certified markets.
5. Restrict the pay of local authority chiefs to £150k.
6. Merge NHS IT systems by county.
7. Merge the DTI into the Treasury.
8. Move the Ministry of Agriculture out of London.
But none of this will ever happen, because it'd annoy too many powerful people in business and the unions. | |
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| Quote ="Urmston Wire"... But none of this will ever happen, because it'd annoy too many powerful people in business and the unions.'"
Okay. You make some interesting and some good (IMO) points. But let's tackle this comment.
Why do you think the unions per se are opposed to what you suggest? And second, hy would annoying the unions be a good thing? |
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So George in a roundabout way is moving from plan A to plan A and a half, yet still won't go after the people in the financial sector who are the main cause of this debt. Instead further attacks the lower and middle classes, public sector and those who depend on the public sector. Grow some George and get our money back from those who sent this country to the dogs.
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| Quote ="Matt01"So George in a roundabout way is moving from plan A to plan A and a half, yet still won't go after the people in the financial sector who are the main cause of this debt. Instead further attacks the lower and middle classes, public sector and those who depend on the public sector. Grow some George and get our money back from those who sent this country to the dogs.'"
No why should he do that when all he has to do is freeze or reduce tax credits? |
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