Quote ="El Barbudo":8xed5wamQuote ="BiffasBoys":8xed5wamThe banks worked within the regulatory framework they were bound by. How would you define unjustifiable. What is your fascination with the U.S. It's got nothing to do with the UK. The problems in the UK are entirely the fault of the last Labour government & it's first Chancellor of the Exchequer <etc etc>...'"
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Riiiiight ... the economic crisis in the UK that precipitated recession in the UK is/was not part of the same economic crisis that precipitated the recession across the Western economies in the same way at the same moment ... OK, got it
BTW, an example of "unjustifiable" is making bets that you don't have the capitalisation to bear if you lose.
But I guess that never happened either, eh?
Quote ="BiffasBoys":8xed5wamSufficiently? He stripped away regulation & controls that were already in place...'"
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Which regulation and controls were these?
Bear in mind we are looking for the specific controls that would have prevented the financial crash, not some airy-fairy general (and fictional) mentions of "controls" ... now's your chance to be specific for once.
Which controls did Brown take away that would have prevented the crash?
Quote ="BiffasBoys":8xed5wamHe set up the useless FSA. It doesn't matter one scintilla what anyone said, it's what he did that brought the crash in the UK... <snip> ... Before Brown came along, interest rates were controlled by the Chancellor & the Governor BofE & they fluctuated according to the demand for money & it's supply. Brown killed that mechanism of interest rate control & stripped away controls on lending.'"
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Okaaay ... so giving responsibility [u:8xed5wamto[/u:8xed5wam the BoE (interest rates) was a mistake and taking responsibility [u:8xed5wamfrom[/u:8xed5wam the BoE (Financial regulation) was also a mistake.
Hmmm.
Quote ="El Bardudo":8xed5wamJust that earlier you said, in one of your "facts", that Gordon Brown took control of interest rates [u:8xed5wamaway[/u:8xed5wam from the BoE.
I'm just wondering whether I dreamed the handing over of interest rate control TO the BoE, by Gordon Brown, back in 1997...'"
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Quote ="BiffasBoys":8xed5wamPerhaps I worded that wrongly. He broke with a 300 year old system to cut the B of E free to do it's own thing, as long as it kept inflation around his target. As long as that figure, which was also manipulated by changing how it was calculated, was good for him, he completely ignores what was going on.'"
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"Worded that wrongly"???? ... bloody hell, I'll say you did ... 100% wrongly
First you say he was wrong to take it away from the BoE.
Then, when you are told that he actually gave it TO the BoE ... suddenly that was the mistake instead.
Why don't you admit that it doesn't really matter who did what or when, that you don't actually require reasons, you just know that EVERYTHING was Brown's fault?
"completely ignored what was going on"? ... to have ignored it, he must have known about it ... so, go on then, you tell us what was "going on" and how he and the rest of the Western economies who spotted it too and "completely ignored" it
You see Sunshine, where he actually went wrong was not in [u:8xed5wamtaking away[/u:8xed5wam regulation (he didn't) but in [u:8xed5wamnot tightening[/u:8xed5wam the regulation that he inherited from the previous bunch of spivs.
(Here's your homework ... Google "Thatcher" and "Big Bang" and "deregulation" and see if you come up with "tighter regulation"icon_wink.gif.
The problem was actually that neither he [u:8xed5wamnor other Western governments[/u:8xed5wam (or you ... or me) realised was the degree of inter-relation between banks and financial institutions even in different countries.
The banks etc were busily trading in financial instruments which were basically packaged turds, the contents of which governmental agencies were, largely, unaware.
Whilst the FSA (for example) was busy looking at individual institutions, no-one noticed how hugely dangerous this inter-relation was (except the institutions themselves and they didn't actually care as it wasn't their own money they were gambling ... even to the point where Goldman Sachs Group sold $40bn of securities (containing sub-prime mortgages) [u:8xed5wamto its own clients[/u:8xed5wam whilst, at the same time betting on a huge drop in the value of those securities. So, basically THEY KNEW they were selling turds ... to clients who paid them and trusted them).
Even the credit-rating agencies were giving this stuff top ratings.
But, I'm forgetting that this was obviously Gordon Brown's fault.
Of course, the Conservatives criticised him at that time for not [u:8xed5wamloosening[/uThe responsibility to act in the best interest of the economy by using interest rates to control the demand for lending...
You seem incapable of realising that it was errors by Gordon. Brown that left the UK in such a mess.
The FSA? Stroke of genius that. He set it up. It failed, catastrophically.
Brown has openly admitted he made a terrible mistake in not knowing the make up of the market before he went ahead with his lunatic plans.
You don't know the market you' re passing regulation on?
What sort of basis is that for running an economy & holding the purse strings?
You're wrong on interest rate setting.
I was actually asking for a comparison on the growth figures for Eurozone countries, instead of you banging on about the irrelevant & incomparable USA of A.
Why did Gordon Brown change the way interest rates were set?
This change gave rise to huge increases in lending, which he of course was happy to cream the taxes off.
A doubling in public spending, £320bn to £640bn per annum and the massive structural deficit we have, was/is down to Gordon Brown. Where has all that money gone?
Did he really truly believe he had become the first Chancellor in history to abolish boom & bust? He took the latter to record levels.
With all that money coming in, why run a deficit at all?
Remind us again how the wealth gap grew like never before under his watch.
The house price bubble took home ownership out of the reach of so many, thus putting more pressure on the state.
Why is it not his fault that he did not keep a very close eye on the economy?
Did he not see any of the quarterly statistics on, for example, mortgage lending etc?
The banks have become a very convenient scapegoat. They could only do as they did because, excuse the unintended pun, Brown turned a blind eye to everything that was going on.
Where is he these days? Leaving Miliband & Balls to trot out the 'it's all the banks fault' line.
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